Fabrice2
Established
I got a kiev 4A this morning, i haven't bought a new camera since june, so i don't feel guilty, i diserved it.And the ruben's post about his kiev project convinced me to get one.
The seller was Photobuc, and i got the parcel in 1 week from Ukraine.
Here's the auction picture.
Esthetically,the camera is pretty clean, and it's a nice looking camera,except the viewfinder is not clean.
The leather on the self timer button is not present, unlike in the auction picture.
The lens is a J8 and i've ordered last month one of those new helios 103,so i got 2 lenses.I've also ordered some 40.5mm UV filters and lens caps yesterday.
I check the camera fonctionallity.
As it is my first Kiev i don't know what is normal and what is not, but i think i've some problems with the camera:
The lens turns when i use the wheel , or when i turn it myself but the RF patch doesn't move at all.
Is this anormal or is there a technique to unlock the patch?
Also, I have some difficulties to change the speeds, it's odd for me to use the rewind knob for that, it's really painfull for my fingers, and it's almost impossible to get on the B pose.
Should i rewind the knob till the end? because there is a spring noise when i turn to a certain point, and sometimes on slower speeds like 1/2 or 1/5 there is a 5mm space between the 2 shutters when i rewind.
When i'm on pose when i remove my fingers from the shutter button,the curtains remain opened,i've got to touch/press it again softly to close the curtains.
I wont send it back to the seller, i'll probably repair myself,i've got all the necessary tools, but i'm not a kiev specialist.
The seller was Photobuc, and i got the parcel in 1 week from Ukraine.
Here's the auction picture.
Esthetically,the camera is pretty clean, and it's a nice looking camera,except the viewfinder is not clean.
The leather on the self timer button is not present, unlike in the auction picture.
The lens is a J8 and i've ordered last month one of those new helios 103,so i got 2 lenses.I've also ordered some 40.5mm UV filters and lens caps yesterday.
I check the camera fonctionallity.
As it is my first Kiev i don't know what is normal and what is not, but i think i've some problems with the camera:
The lens turns when i use the wheel , or when i turn it myself but the RF patch doesn't move at all.
Is this anormal or is there a technique to unlock the patch?
Also, I have some difficulties to change the speeds, it's odd for me to use the rewind knob for that, it's really painfull for my fingers, and it's almost impossible to get on the B pose.
Should i rewind the knob till the end? because there is a spring noise when i turn to a certain point, and sometimes on slower speeds like 1/2 or 1/5 there is a 5mm space between the 2 shutters when i rewind.
When i'm on pose when i remove my fingers from the shutter button,the curtains remain opened,i've got to touch/press it again softly to close the curtains.
I wont send it back to the seller, i'll probably repair myself,i've got all the necessary tools, but i'm not a kiev specialist.
brachal
Refrigerated User
First bookmark this:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html
It sounds like your kiev has some problems.
The rangefinder patch should move when you adjust the focus of the lens. Make sure you are not covering the second rangefinder window (the one underneath the shutter button) with your finger when you focus. It's easy to do.
Changing speeds can sometimes be more difficult than what we are used to, but it shouldn't hurt. The camera may need to be lubricated and adjusted.
I'm not sure about the shutter spacing issue. I'd have to look at one of mine to tell you, but I'm not home right now. I'm sure somebody will be along soon who knows more than I do.
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html
It sounds like your kiev has some problems.
The rangefinder patch should move when you adjust the focus of the lens. Make sure you are not covering the second rangefinder window (the one underneath the shutter button) with your finger when you focus. It's easy to do.
Changing speeds can sometimes be more difficult than what we are used to, but it shouldn't hurt. The camera may need to be lubricated and adjusted.
I'm not sure about the shutter spacing issue. I'd have to look at one of mine to tell you, but I'm not home right now. I'm sure somebody will be along soon who knows more than I do.
ErnestoJL
Well-known
Go to Russ Pinchbeck´s Kiev Survival site in the internet (it´s address is in the first answer posted).
This site is full of pictures, as well as nice explanations about what to do (in case you´re confident dealing with small mechanics).
Your´s seem to be a nice case of dirt and lack of adequate lubrication.
Good luck!
Ernesto
This site is full of pictures, as well as nice explanations about what to do (in case you´re confident dealing with small mechanics).
Your´s seem to be a nice case of dirt and lack of adequate lubrication.
Good luck!
Ernesto
Fabrice2
Established
Thanks for the link, a very usefull website.
Now i'm stuck in B pose and i cant move the speed selector anymore.
If i want to go on 1/1000 or 1/500 i've to check when i rewind where is the selector mark and stop on 1/500 i.e. (i got no film inside but there can be a frame spacing problem).
If i force a little (going backward) selecting speed the normal way, the shutter opens :bang:
I gonna try to clean and lubricate without going too deep inside the camera.
Now i'm stuck in B pose and i cant move the speed selector anymore.
If i want to go on 1/1000 or 1/500 i've to check when i rewind where is the selector mark and stop on 1/500 i.e. (i got no film inside but there can be a frame spacing problem).
If i force a little (going backward) selecting speed the normal way, the shutter opens :bang:
I gonna try to clean and lubricate without going too deep inside the camera.
JonR
Well-known
Fabrice2 - when you have figured out how to fix the shutter in your Kiev 4 you are more than welcome to my place to fix one for me!! 
I bought in total 3 Kiev 4´s on 3 different auctions lately -- 2 are working great) ) but the shutter is stuck on somewhere between 1 sec and B on one of them bang: ).... Given that you can pick them up relatively cheap these day I am not so sure it is worth while to ship it off for service.... If I have too much spare time some day I may try to fix it myself or alternatively bid for another one...
/Jon
I bought in total 3 Kiev 4´s on 3 different auctions lately -- 2 are working great
) ) but the shutter is stuck on somewhere between 1 sec and B on one of them bang: ).... Given that you can pick them up relatively cheap these day I am not so sure it is worth while to ship it off for service.... If I have too much spare time some day I may try to fix it myself or alternatively bid for another one.../Jon
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
for use right away ,buy a Kiev from Fedka or a Leica type from Oleg.
alot of the auction site sellers from the FSU are hit and miss, more miss in these last few years.
you can end up with a few shelf clunkers and a box full of camera parts.
alot of the auction site sellers from the FSU are hit and miss, more miss in these last few years.
you can end up with a few shelf clunkers and a box full of camera parts.
Fabrice2
Established
I 've put the camera in part, helped with the Kiev survival website,it's the best way to access the rangefinder, i just had to touch the RF arm inside the camera to repair the rangefinder, it was stucked by something, some grease for sure.Now the patch is moving.But i cant check the infinity for now, it's the night.
The grease inside is so old, it has became like glue.
It's really impressing the number of piece that we can find inside those camera!
I still can't find why the shutter is acting like that,but there's a kind of lock when you look the curtain from behind, there is like a hook, mine was bent, when i tried to put it back it has broken in my hand, i'll solder it later.
I think the camera wasn't used for a while and lots of things are stuck because of that brown grease. I'll give it a full CLA later.
But i'm so disappointed by the seller, he should have told the problems on the announce.
JonR i got exactly the same problem.
The grease inside is so old, it has became like glue.
It's really impressing the number of piece that we can find inside those camera!
I still can't find why the shutter is acting like that,but there's a kind of lock when you look the curtain from behind, there is like a hook, mine was bent, when i tried to put it back it has broken in my hand, i'll solder it later.
I think the camera wasn't used for a while and lots of things are stuck because of that brown grease. I'll give it a full CLA later.
But i'm so disappointed by the seller, he should have told the problems on the announce.
JonR i got exactly the same problem.
Last edited:
wolves3012
Veteran
Fabrice,
Ebay is full of sellers like this, unfortunately. You need to buy from a known, reliable seller (several are recommended on here) or factor in a service. My 4a came with wheezing, dry gears and a slow shutter but was otherwise ok. A quick lube had it all running nicely and I set the rangefinder while it was apart.
Of all the FSUs I've bought, only a couple arrived 100% ok but most arrived at least working usably. Being a perfectionist I've done CLAs on most of them, regardless.
Ebay is full of sellers like this, unfortunately. You need to buy from a known, reliable seller (several are recommended on here) or factor in a service. My 4a came with wheezing, dry gears and a slow shutter but was otherwise ok. A quick lube had it all running nicely and I set the rangefinder while it was apart.
Of all the FSUs I've bought, only a couple arrived 100% ok but most arrived at least working usably. Being a perfectionist I've done CLAs on most of them, regardless.
Fabrice2
Established
I think i've been lucky i never got problems before,and i'm a perfectionnist too, it doesn't bother me to buy a broken camera but the seller should tell it on the announce (like alex photo), and even if the camera is not broken i want to get the maximum of its possibilities so i do a light or full cla.
I didn't know about the kiev, now in one day i learned a lot about them
JonR >>> I got my theory, the problem is from the lower curtain, there should be a kind of hook on it and another one on the camera, when you retain the second curtain (what the camera should do) you can change the speeds without moving the curtain, if you don't retain the hook the lower curtain doesn't stay in place,so you got a space and you cant move the speed selector.It should work like this:when the shutter is rewound the 2 hooks are stuck together, when you release the curtain you release the hook and the curtain travel to its position.
I didn't know about the kiev, now in one day i learned a lot about them
JonR >>> I got my theory, the problem is from the lower curtain, there should be a kind of hook on it and another one on the camera, when you retain the second curtain (what the camera should do) you can change the speeds without moving the curtain, if you don't retain the hook the lower curtain doesn't stay in place,so you got a space and you cant move the speed selector.It should work like this:when the shutter is rewound the 2 hooks are stuck together, when you release the curtain you release the hook and the curtain travel to its position.
Last edited:
Spyderman
Well-known
When you have it apart - be sure to wash it thoroughly in benzine or naphta or lighter fluid and use a paint-brush to make the solvent get everywhere. Then the best thing is to spray it with PTFE (Teflon) spray. The entire shutter mechanism. After it dries competely, apply small amount of grease to the film advance part - not to the slow speeds clockworks - the clockwork should work dry.
nicholas
Newbie
Kiev CLA
Kiev CLA
Spiderman
On a Kiev 4 can the entire shutter module be cleaned with lighter fluid without removing it from the body? And, of course, sprayed with teflon as well? I want to try doing this without disturbing the rangefinder since it is dead on. Thanks man.
nicholas
Kiev CLA
Spiderman
On a Kiev 4 can the entire shutter module be cleaned with lighter fluid without removing it from the body? And, of course, sprayed with teflon as well? I want to try doing this without disturbing the rangefinder since it is dead on. Thanks man.
nicholas
Fabrice2
Established
The camera is very clean inside, the only place where there was grease was in the clockwork under the top casting, on the left of the knob, i cleaned it and replace with good oil.All the other clockworks are dry.
I tried to glue the piece of hook on the lower curtain but it doesn't work i could shot 2-3 times then it broke again.I think the seller has tried to tension the spring with a too heavy weight and that damaged the curtain's hook.
So i tried to solder it, it's almost impossible to solder someting on the curtain,so i've rebuilt the camera, and i've ordered a new one from alex photo for 9$, i'll replace the curtain.It must be the same procedure as a ribbon replacing?
I tried to glue the piece of hook on the lower curtain but it doesn't work i could shot 2-3 times then it broke again.I think the seller has tried to tension the spring with a too heavy weight and that damaged the curtain's hook.
So i tried to solder it, it's almost impossible to solder someting on the curtain,so i've rebuilt the camera, and i've ordered a new one from alex photo for 9$, i'll replace the curtain.It must be the same procedure as a ribbon replacing?
Spyderman
Well-known
nicholas: the best way is to remove the shutter module from the front part of the body. The RF won't be disturbed by this. If you washed and sprayed it while inside the body, you might unglue some glass parts in the RF and that would be even worse.
Fabrice2: when you've cleaned the shutter module, you might as well want to to decrease the tension of the main shutter spring. You'll have to distension it for the curtains replacement, so just when applying tension again, give it less turns than it had originally. I usually distension all my Kievs from 10 +/-1 turns originally (factory setting) to about 6 +/-1 turns. It makes the shutter much softer and quieter. Today I'm going to pick up my first film from a camera modified this way, so later tonight I'll let you know if the exposure was fine...
Fabrice2: when you've cleaned the shutter module, you might as well want to to decrease the tension of the main shutter spring. You'll have to distension it for the curtains replacement, so just when applying tension again, give it less turns than it had originally. I usually distension all my Kievs from 10 +/-1 turns originally (factory setting) to about 6 +/-1 turns. It makes the shutter much softer and quieter. Today I'm going to pick up my first film from a camera modified this way, so later tonight I'll let you know if the exposure was fine...
Fabrice2
Established
I'll do it, the camera wasn't as quite as it would be, it was just less quiter than a Zorki 4, but not as quite as a fed 1 or 2.That's not normal in my opinion.
I've rebuilt the camera yesterday cause i've to cait for some new curtains, i could cock the shutter and shot, to i try again and the curtains don't move anymore when i cock the shutter.The ribbons may have broken.
I got another question, is the rangefinder 's tunnel should be glued?the piece n°3 on the picture:
I've rebuilt the camera yesterday cause i've to cait for some new curtains, i could cock the shutter and shot, to i try again and the curtains don't move anymore when i cock the shutter.The ribbons may have broken.
I got another question, is the rangefinder 's tunnel should be glued?the piece n°3 on the picture:
R
ruben
Guest
Hi Fabrice,
In a few days you have became very knowledgeable of the Kiev, this means that you have some technical background or instinct and you can grasp very well the KSS. So read and re-read it with patience. From your starting point you will not have a fully working camera in a few days. Be patient.
If Alex has not already shipped the parts Kiev, (check it immediately), it will help if you specify him that working curtains of are your main concern in that camera.
See you soon,
Ruben
Now you have asked a lot of questions and solved many of them, so it is a kind of too fast ping pong in which I am loosing track. So arrive to some final point and perhaps make a list of the remaining problems you are unable to solve and really need help.
In a few days you have became very knowledgeable of the Kiev, this means that you have some technical background or instinct and you can grasp very well the KSS. So read and re-read it with patience. From your starting point you will not have a fully working camera in a few days. Be patient.
If Alex has not already shipped the parts Kiev, (check it immediately), it will help if you specify him that working curtains of are your main concern in that camera.
See you soon,
Ruben
Now you have asked a lot of questions and solved many of them, so it is a kind of too fast ping pong in which I am loosing track. So arrive to some final point and perhaps make a list of the remaining problems you are unable to solve and really need help.
Fabrice2
Established
Alex has shipped the curtains today,i'll have it in one week or more depending of the customs.As he"s combined the shipping with some developping tanks i think it"s gonna take some time.
I learned a lot about kiev in 2 days,and i think i've still lot of things to learn, mostly about the shutter curtains with only 2 ribbons and the how the speeds are working, it looks so different than zorkis and fed, i also used a russian book called "Ustrojstvo i remont fotoapparatov" and some translations made by a russian friend.
I think we're all like that about the cameras we like, we absorb the knowledges about them like a sponge absorb water.
And it's so interresting to be helped by people who are experienced and have the same passion about cameras and repairs.
I hope that my diagnostic is good about the camera's problems.
To resume:
1 broken hook on the lower curtain, just 5 minutes after i received the parcel, from that i noticed shutter problems.The RF was also stuck. I decided to open the camera and CLA
2 RF stuck repaired but the "tunnel" is not glued, i don't know if it has to be like that?
3 i tried to glue the broken hook of the lower curtain>>doesn't work
4 so i tried to solder the hook >>>it doesn"t work soldering isn"t strong enough for such a small piece.i could shot only 4 times.
5 camera is now stuck i think about broken ribbons which were in a poor conditions
6 waiting for new curtains & ribbons.
I learned a lot about kiev in 2 days,and i think i've still lot of things to learn, mostly about the shutter curtains with only 2 ribbons and the how the speeds are working, it looks so different than zorkis and fed, i also used a russian book called "Ustrojstvo i remont fotoapparatov" and some translations made by a russian friend.
I think we're all like that about the cameras we like, we absorb the knowledges about them like a sponge absorb water.
And it's so interresting to be helped by people who are experienced and have the same passion about cameras and repairs.
I hope that my diagnostic is good about the camera's problems.
To resume:
1 broken hook on the lower curtain, just 5 minutes after i received the parcel, from that i noticed shutter problems.The RF was also stuck. I decided to open the camera and CLA
2 RF stuck repaired but the "tunnel" is not glued, i don't know if it has to be like that?
3 i tried to glue the broken hook of the lower curtain>>doesn't work
4 so i tried to solder the hook >>>it doesn"t work soldering isn"t strong enough for such a small piece.i could shot only 4 times.
5 camera is now stuck i think about broken ribbons which were in a poor conditions
6 waiting for new curtains & ribbons.
JonR
Well-known
Good luck!
I am impressed with the speed with which you have taken on this project ! My Kiev with broken shutten is still sitting in the bookshelf.....
/jon
I am impressed with the speed with which you have taken on this project ! My Kiev with broken shutten is still sitting in the bookshelf.....
/jon
Spyderman
Well-known
No, the prism is held there by the shutter module and the 2 metal springs on top that hold the shutter module.