PaulN
Monkey
My better half OK'd the purchase for a wide angle lense, as she is getting tired with 35mm lenses on the R-D1 in cramped quarters. Given the inexpensive prices of voigtlander lenses, I can easily acquire two lenses for less than 1/2 the price of a Leica. Based on Sean Reid's reviews, and the glowing reviews & pictures from others, I'm settled on picking up the CV28/1.9. It seems a no-brainer.
I'm also thinking of picking up the CV15/4, although I'm not convinced. I like some of the pics from Kaplan over on Pnet, but wonder if this is just a novelty lense that I'll soon get bored with. On the R-D1 it will be around a 22mm lense which is the widest lense I'll own to date for both RFs & SLRs. Is the distortion too much on this lense to make it practical to shoot common family style events? I know that I can put it to use on my M to take some nice architecture/street shots, but my wife will primarily be using this lense for common family/friend snapshots. Is it just going to disappoint? Also, would it be worthwhile to pickup a 15mm R-D1 finder, or is it easy enough to guesstimate the framing?
Finally, I don't hear people talk much about the 21mm lenses or 25mm lenses.. Any advice on those? If I pickup the 28/1.9, the 25mm seems out of the question. What about a 21mm instead of the 15/28 combination?
I'm not really looking for lens "reviews", etc. I'm looking for "usability" reviews given common situations. I know that creativity plays a huge roll in all of this, but there are somethings that you learn about a lense after using it for a year or two. Ie, "the distortion of the 15mm on the edges will drive you crazy when taking shots of people in crowded rooms, try a 21mm instead.."I'm after this type of feedback, without having to drop some $$ and learn the hard way.
Thanks,
-Paul
I'm also thinking of picking up the CV15/4, although I'm not convinced. I like some of the pics from Kaplan over on Pnet, but wonder if this is just a novelty lense that I'll soon get bored with. On the R-D1 it will be around a 22mm lense which is the widest lense I'll own to date for both RFs & SLRs. Is the distortion too much on this lense to make it practical to shoot common family style events? I know that I can put it to use on my M to take some nice architecture/street shots, but my wife will primarily be using this lense for common family/friend snapshots. Is it just going to disappoint? Also, would it be worthwhile to pickup a 15mm R-D1 finder, or is it easy enough to guesstimate the framing?
Finally, I don't hear people talk much about the 21mm lenses or 25mm lenses.. Any advice on those? If I pickup the 28/1.9, the 25mm seems out of the question. What about a 21mm instead of the 15/28 combination?
I'm not really looking for lens "reviews", etc. I'm looking for "usability" reviews given common situations. I know that creativity plays a huge roll in all of this, but there are somethings that you learn about a lense after using it for a year or two. Ie, "the distortion of the 15mm on the edges will drive you crazy when taking shots of people in crowded rooms, try a 21mm instead.."I'm after this type of feedback, without having to drop some $$ and learn the hard way.
Thanks,
-Paul
R
RML
Guest
I'll get me a 15 as well for my R-D1, when the money ship comes in.
I find the 25 a wonderful lens and very versatile. Check _my photo portfolio_ for many examples, especially the photos from India, Mongolia and China. The 15, which is as nice as the 25, will give me about 22mm view on the R-D1. I handled it for a short while last year and it was right then that I just had to get one. Now, where's that money ship?!
I find the 25 a wonderful lens and very versatile. Check _my photo portfolio_ for many examples, especially the photos from India, Mongolia and China. The 15, which is as nice as the 25, will give me about 22mm view on the R-D1. I handled it for a short while last year and it was right then that I just had to get one. Now, where's that money ship?!
cbass
Nutmegger
I use the 25/4 with my Bessa R and I'm not feeling the love. It's a nicely built lens with good glass and it's great for outdoor work and landscapes, but indoors it leaves much to be desired due to its slow max aperture and lack of RF coupling. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Since you're also dealing with the RD-1's crop factor I'd suggest bypassing the 25/4 and going for the 21 instead. The RF coupling alone will make it better suited for low-light and indoor shooting.
Since you're also dealing with the RD-1's crop factor I'd suggest bypassing the 25/4 and going for the 21 instead. The RF coupling alone will make it better suited for low-light and indoor shooting.
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peptonio
-
PaulN said:
Ahahh, she O.K.'d it !? C'mon, what "contract" did you have to sign for that O.K. ??
Sorry, I think was too indiscrete again If you can buy two lenses take a 4/21mm and 1.9/ 28mm , both outstanding ,
the 28 has a VERY nice footprint, I wish I had it. !!
The 15mm is a specialist and lugs the burden of huge compromises, as all specialists do. If you do not have a clear idea for what you NEED it then leave it alone. Too expensive for some funny experiments IMO.
The 21 is a beast too tho which must get tamed, don't forget the level and double shoe for this lens.
Peppo
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
These are not really necessary for the 21mm on the R-D1 as it equals 32mm so you are not getting the same field of view or distortion if not level as you would with full frame. May be worthwhile for the 15mm = 23mm depending what you shoot and how much of a perfectionist you are.peptonio said:
I have VC 28mm Ultron. An excellent lens and a no brainer as you say and it gets almost as much use as my 35mm Cron. I also have VC 25mm f4 Skopar & 21mm f2.8 Avenon and its a more difficult choice. My shooting preference is 35mm lens on full frame. 21mm = 32mm and 25mm = 38mm on the R-D1.
The VC 25mm has very good handling and is small and discrete, but f4 can be limiting a lot of the time for situations I shoot. It is also possible to get away without a finder for this lens by using the whole of the area of the R-D1 viewfinder and I prefer to use it this way even though as a glasses wearer its not ideal. Although not RF coupled it has click stops for focusing and depth of field will cover below f4 in most circumstances. If you do 'Street' the quickness of use means shooting gains should outway losses here. The 38mm equivalent is not that much wider than the the 42mm equivalent of the 28mm. I consider the small size and speed of use the main gains over using the 28mm.
My 21mm Avenon is a much larger lens, but a stop faster (the VC 21mm is smaller, but only f4) and closer to the ideal field of view I like. It is rangefinder coupled (as is the VC), but a seperate viewfinder is IMHO essential, which offsets the gains here. I think it is the bulk and the external finder that means I don't use this lens as much as I would normally for this equivalent focal length.
I have used my friends VC 15mm (= 23mm on R-D1) and it is a compact and very good lens, but again the aperture is limited depending on what you shoot. I am tempted, but rarely need or want to shoot this wide and if I do I revert to using the 21mm on film.
Ideally I suppose the best choice for me would be to trade the ones I have and go for the Leica Elmarit 24mm f2.8 ASPH ( = 36mm), but I really want an R-D2 with parallax corrected framelines visable to a glasses wearer to use it on.
saxshooter
Well-known
PaulN said:
Paul, the 15mm Heliar was the lens I immediately purchased to augment my Leica lens set when I got the RD-1. I usually carry the 15mm, 28mm, and 50mm in my bag when I go out with the RD-1. If you will be shooting in cramped quarters, the 15mm is useful, but two caveats: slower 4.5 aperture and it is not rangefinder coupled, so you have to scale focus. This if your subject is a few feet in front of you, since DOF (even wide open) of the lens will compensate for any focusing errors. But if you are shooting very close foregrounds, you will have some framing and focusing troubles which will take some practice to get used to.
I use the corrected VF also. Expensive, but I feel it is necessary.
I've found no noticeable distortion with the 15mm (it is rectilinear and you have a 1.5 crop factor) but there is sometimes noticeable vignetting with the lens.
I have a 21mm also, it is good if you feel that 32mm effective focal length is wide enough for you. But I will pull out the 21mm 2.8 when I need the lens speed (vs. 15mm Heliar).
Hope this helps.
JoshRoot
The NW will rise again.
The 15mm lens is really nifty. But I dislike the slow speed. That having been said, I love mine and am glad I have it.
The 21/4 is also a great lens with a classic FOV on the R-D1. Again though, it's a bit slow. I wish I could step up to a 2.8 lens. Actually, what I really wish is that Voigt would make a 21/2 lens that only covered the R-D1's sensor area.
The 28/1.9 is quite good as well. Large though. But as it is the widest "fast" lens that I could get, I am happy that I have it and it gets a lot of use.
If I had to pick one it would be the 28. If I had to pick two, I guess 28/15. Though a good argument could be made for the 21/28.
The 21/4 is also a great lens with a classic FOV on the R-D1. Again though, it's a bit slow. I wish I could step up to a 2.8 lens. Actually, what I really wish is that Voigt would make a 21/2 lens that only covered the R-D1's sensor area.
The 28/1.9 is quite good as well. Large though. But as it is the widest "fast" lens that I could get, I am happy that I have it and it gets a lot of use.
If I had to pick one it would be the 28. If I had to pick two, I guess 28/15. Though a good argument could be made for the 21/28.
Phil_Hawkes
Established
Hi Paul,
I have the VC 28 and VC 15 for my R-D1.
The 28 is fine lens.
The 15 is a sharp lens: my impression is that the resolution of the lens outperforms the resolution of the sensor.
The vignetting on the 15 can be a problem in some situations. The vignetting results in loss of details at the edges of the from. If this lens is for family photos where you want to be able to see details (like everyone's face) across the entire frame, then you might be disappointed. People seem to report that the 12mm has less vignetting, so if you really really need an ultra wide with fairly even lighting then maybe the VC 12mm would be better.
Indoors, I found the slow speed of the 15mm a problem initially; nowadays I use a monopod to get around that problem. If you go for the 15mm, I would recommend getting a double hot-shoe adapter for the level.
(An aside: the 15mm is fantastic on film....
***
Some comments on buying a 21mm or 25.
If you are happy with the 35mm lens that already have, then consider that you won't be gaining much field of view by getting the 28mm. In most indoor situations, I am guessing that your wife might get one extra face in a photo using the 28, but that will be about as much extra width as she will be able to get. That is my guess: I would suggest getting your wife to do some experimentss changing betweeen th2 28 and 35 framelines to see if she would be happy with the extra field of view.
If you want to go for a single lens, then be sure to check out the zeiss ikon 25/2.8 and zeiss ikon 21/2.8. They get great reviews.. particularly the 25mm. And many people seem to advocate using the view through the R-D1 viewfinder as a good approximation to framelines for a 25mm. If I didn't already have my 28mm, I would probably have bought a ZI 25mm.
I have the VC 28 and VC 15 for my R-D1.
The 28 is fine lens.
The 15 is a sharp lens: my impression is that the resolution of the lens outperforms the resolution of the sensor.
The vignetting on the 15 can be a problem in some situations. The vignetting results in loss of details at the edges of the from. If this lens is for family photos where you want to be able to see details (like everyone's face) across the entire frame, then you might be disappointed. People seem to report that the 12mm has less vignetting, so if you really really need an ultra wide with fairly even lighting then maybe the VC 12mm would be better.
Indoors, I found the slow speed of the 15mm a problem initially; nowadays I use a monopod to get around that problem. If you go for the 15mm, I would recommend getting a double hot-shoe adapter for the level.
(An aside: the 15mm is fantastic on film....
***
Some comments on buying a 21mm or 25.
If you are happy with the 35mm lens that already have, then consider that you won't be gaining much field of view by getting the 28mm. In most indoor situations, I am guessing that your wife might get one extra face in a photo using the 28, but that will be about as much extra width as she will be able to get. That is my guess: I would suggest getting your wife to do some experimentss changing betweeen th2 28 and 35 framelines to see if she would be happy with the extra field of view.
If you want to go for a single lens, then be sure to check out the zeiss ikon 25/2.8 and zeiss ikon 21/2.8. They get great reviews.. particularly the 25mm. And many people seem to advocate using the view through the R-D1 viewfinder as a good approximation to framelines for a 25mm. If I didn't already have my 28mm, I would probably have bought a ZI 25mm.
PaulN
Monkey
Thanks for the help all! All of it is great information. Unfortunately, it has added more confusion. Instead of 28/15 I'm now thinking about either the 25 or 21mm zeiss. I'm leaning towards the 25mm as I can use the entire viewfinder as a rough guide on both the R-D1 and my .58 M.
Too much selection is a bad thing. I'm drawn to the zeiss though; I've seen some great shots and have read some great reviews.
Too much selection is a bad thing. I'm drawn to the zeiss though; I've seen some great shots and have read some great reviews.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
21mm is wonderful.
R
RML
Guest
Ouch, Paul! I can sense the GAS afflicting you! Now it's only a matter of waiting until you're called to the Dark Side....
PaulN
Monkey
RML said:Ouch, Paul! I can sense the GAS afflicting you! Now it's only a matter of waiting until you're called to the Dark Side....
Yeah, that GAS comes and goes. The fact that the wife is asking for a wider lens is killing me though.. I'm now leaning towards the 15/28 combo that I began with, as I remembered that I have a 20mm/2.8 for my Canon D60. The 15/28 combo will then buffer the 20mm and give me some pretty good coverage.
Arrrghhh. The darkside is a Rollei TLR that is calling out to me. The holga for an Xmas present was a bad idea. Damn, those 6x6 negatives are big. I'm dying to see a 6x6 negative that is sharp, where I can actually control the exposure and can critically focus.
tax refunds... gear acquisition syndrome... I hate this time of year
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
Hehe...I want something other than a TLR. I have a Meopta that I want to take apart, clean, and get rid of.
Ronald M
Veteran
The 15 is has no distortion to speak of. Straight lines are straight. Circles turn to elipses in the corners like every wide ever built. This happens when to project to flat film.
I have 12,15,25 CV glass. All nice.
I bought the 25 to carry when the Leica 21 and 28 are too much to carry. 25 and 35 are a nice WA set for 35 film if you don`t want the large Zeiss or Leica.
You will get some corner darkening with them on the Epson chip, not film based on tests I have seen published.
The 28`s should work fine a a 40 mm substitute.
I have 12,15,25 CV glass. All nice.
I bought the 25 to carry when the Leica 21 and 28 are too much to carry. 25 and 35 are a nice WA set for 35 film if you don`t want the large Zeiss or Leica.
You will get some corner darkening with them on the Epson chip, not film based on tests I have seen published.
The 28`s should work fine a a 40 mm substitute.
rvaubel
Well-known
Wide lenses for the R-D1
Wide lenses for the R-D1
Paul
I tried the 15mm Heliar out on a RD1 last weekend and really liked it. On my R3a it was kind of a freak lens, a little to wide for general purpose stuff. Not that I didnt like it, just had to use it selectivley to use its virtues. The pictures were more lens driven than I normally like.
However, on the RD1, it was a different story. 15mm frames as a 23mm with the perspective of the wider lens. Very interesting results. I used it in a classroom setting and on the street in the Mission district (SF) . I can see using this lens for family pics, parties, and general people stuff on any crop frame camera (that would be the RD1 only, I guess!). The vignetting was easy to deal with in CS2. Focus problems were of course, nonexistant. Even the slow speed wasnt an issue as you can jack the ISO up to compansate (a little more noise but it beats any P&S and is almost as non-obstrusive).
I used the CV 25mm F3.5 also. It was fine outdoors, but in low light the lack of rangefinder focus in conjunction with its slow speed, made sharp pictures a little to problamatic for me. A 28mm F2 or the 28mm f1.9 Noctern would be a better choice.
The real sleeper, was the CV 40mm F1.4 . On a FF camera, it is pretty much a normal lens, useful for low light work. But on the RD it frames as a slightly long lens (60mm equiv) but keeps the 40's wide perspective. The 15mm does the same thing, but it is particularlly strikings with this focal lenght. Also control of DOF is remarkable at F1.4 I took all kinds of candid portriats with this lens, both inside and out, and was blown away by its flexibility and general useage. If I had only one lens for the R-D1, this would be it!
Whoops, I got of the topic of wide angle.......sorry
Rex
Wide lenses for the R-D1
Paul
I tried the 15mm Heliar out on a RD1 last weekend and really liked it. On my R3a it was kind of a freak lens, a little to wide for general purpose stuff. Not that I didnt like it, just had to use it selectivley to use its virtues. The pictures were more lens driven than I normally like.
However, on the RD1, it was a different story. 15mm frames as a 23mm with the perspective of the wider lens. Very interesting results. I used it in a classroom setting and on the street in the Mission district (SF) . I can see using this lens for family pics, parties, and general people stuff on any crop frame camera (that would be the RD1 only, I guess!). The vignetting was easy to deal with in CS2. Focus problems were of course, nonexistant. Even the slow speed wasnt an issue as you can jack the ISO up to compansate (a little more noise but it beats any P&S and is almost as non-obstrusive).
I used the CV 25mm F3.5 also. It was fine outdoors, but in low light the lack of rangefinder focus in conjunction with its slow speed, made sharp pictures a little to problamatic for me. A 28mm F2 or the 28mm f1.9 Noctern would be a better choice.
The real sleeper, was the CV 40mm F1.4 . On a FF camera, it is pretty much a normal lens, useful for low light work. But on the RD it frames as a slightly long lens (60mm equiv) but keeps the 40's wide perspective. The 15mm does the same thing, but it is particularlly strikings with this focal lenght. Also control of DOF is remarkable at F1.4 I took all kinds of candid portriats with this lens, both inside and out, and was blown away by its flexibility and general useage. If I had only one lens for the R-D1, this would be it!
Whoops, I got of the topic of wide angle.......sorry
Rex
R
RML
Guest
I too love the 40mm on the R-D1, in my case the M-Rokkor 40/2. A bit slower than the CV 40/1.4 but I don't think I'll need that 1 stop extra with the R-D1 when it's so easy to simply increase the iso value from 200 to 400.
N
nihraguk
Guest
I have the CV 21/4, and I find it a very useful focal length for photography when I'm travelling -- though I guess this doesn't really apply given the RD1's crop factor. In terms of performance I find that it really shines at f5.6 and smaller. If you would like pictures, I have some here: http://flickr.com/photos/nihraguk/tags/21mm/
EDIT: the speed can be a pain in the rear sometimes, especially for indoor work. The lens itself is very lightweight and low-profile, extremely pocketable.
EDIT: the speed can be a pain in the rear sometimes, especially for indoor work. The lens itself is very lightweight and low-profile, extremely pocketable.