Grain accentuated by scanning?

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Brooktaw

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I've recently returned to shooting film and also been scanning negatives from 35 years ago. With both new and old negatives I'm getting far more grain in scanned images than I expect. Most are 400 asa film. Is there a processing trick that people are using to reduce the effects of grain in their scanned images? I want it to be an element of the final image, I just don't want it to be such a pronounced feature!

Any tips gladly received.

Chris
 
Can you specify what scanner/software you use for your scanning? Some combinations have the grain reduction option. I'm not sure how it affects sharpness, though. I scan mostly transparencies on Minolta Multipro scanner with Vuescan software, and don't use The Grain Reduction option. Since most of my originals are fine-grained films, I don't complain about the grain.
 
it could be the sharpening settings on the scanner/software. When cranked up to make images appear sharper (especially if the scanner is the type that is fixed focus), it appears to make the grain much larger. What I think that actually is is a type of digital image noise.
 
Scanning film is an art at the consumer level, made harder by the almost complete absence of advances in consumer film scanning technology the past 12-14 years. It can be a frustrating process, especially the higher you try going in resolution.
 
I learned the hard way that scanning at a lower resolution can result in the "aliasing" of grain and rougher apparent grain. I've gotten in the habit of scanning at max resolution even if I don't need it.
 
My V600 massively over-produces grain. 6x45 negatives appear to have as much or more grain than a 35mm negative actually has. Because of that, I've stopped using it as a negative scanner and only use it to scan darkroom prints.

I was never able to find a solution in the scanner or software.

I'm now using my OMD EM1.2 with a macro lens, copy stand, and a light box to "scan" 50MP negatives. It's overkill for 35mm but works well for fine grained 6x45.
 
I use an Epson V700 (or some other number, can't remember) and found that if I let the scanner do the "auto exposure" as it calls it, the grain is fine, but if I scan as a positive and flip/colour correct in PS the grain is way more pronounced but the colours are more accurate. Pain in the arse. I tend to let the scanner do it's thing and only use the other method for weird expired film etc. that confuses the scanner.

Like others have said, scan at higher res maybe. I go for ~3000dpi with sharpening at low and everything else off.
 
There's no trick to it. You are seeing grain aliasing. Scan at a higher resolution. This only works to a certain degree depending on the scanner (you didn't mention what you are using).
 
Neat Image will also help quite a bit in reducing the visibility of film grain. Just don't OD on it. :)
 
dmr said:
I learned the hard way that scanning at a lower resolution can result in the "aliasing" of grain and rougher apparent grain. I've gotten in the habit of scanning at max resolution even if I don't need it.
Click to expand...

+1, this will frequently happen with relatively grainy negatives. With any modern ISO 400+ film and many old negs on slower films, you can run into this issue. I first encountered with when scanning some of my grandfathers 127 Autographic negs from World War I. The film he developed in a barracks closet during the winter of 1917-18 were rather grainy by today's standards despite the low ISO (actually, it would be pre-A.S.A. at the time) of the film.

Also, the illumination that most scanners use is very much like an enlarger with extremely efficient condensers, approaching the effect of using a point light source. This will cause the grain to be rendered more strongly in the scan just as it would in an enlarger. Most enlargers use compromise condensers and don't render the grain as well.

Using a digital camera in a copystand configuration and a diffuse light source will also fail to render the grain as well. They produce results much more like enlarger printing with a diffusion light source.
 
Is this B/W film and do you have dust/scratch reduction enabled in the scanner software? If so, this is probably the cause. Dust reduction software (DigitalICE on Nikon scanners) does not play nice with the grain in B/W film. You need to disable it when you scan the film.
 
Chris, I use the freeware in the link below for just such problems. I like grain in B&W, but not in colour, and this software has adjustments to vary the effect from a too-cleaned-up digital look, to removing just the amount you wish to remove. All film scanners acentuate film grain to one degree or another. I have seen scans that looked horrible, but wet printed fine in the darkroom.

https://noiseware-community-edition.en.softonic.com/?ex=DSK-347.2
 
jim_jm said:
Is this B/W film and do you have dust/scratch reduction enabled in the scanner software? If so, this is probably the cause. Dust reduction software (DigitalICE on Nikon scanners) does not play nice with the grain in B/W film. You need to disable it when you scan the film.
Click to expand...

This is true of Digital ICE, but not of all "dust reduction" functions. With the Digital ICE compatible EPSON scanners and their EPSONscan software you have two dust reduction options, one using ICE and the other not. The non-ICE dust reduction will work on B&W without triggering the horrid artifacts that occurs on B&W with ICE.

It should be noted that Kodachrome also produces artifacts with ICE and that the chromogenic "B&W" (more properly "monochrome") films do not pose problems with ICE.
 
Turn sharpening off in the scanning software. Sharpen in LR along with a moderate amount of noise reduction.

Results will be much better...

Rolfe
 
You can also scan a black and white negative using the color mode of your scanner. That reduces the grain substantially with a Nikon Coolscan 5000.
 
Turn off grain reduction and sharpness in the scanner.

In Lightroom crank up sharpness, but use the masking feature to sharpen only edges. Lower the detail and radius slider.

Then slide both noise reduction sliders to the halfway point.

If the grain is most noticeable in the sky, go to Photoshop, select it via color range, and run Gaussian Blur.
 
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