Great Father/Son (or Daughter) Artists?

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Benjamin Marks

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My friend Christian Keathley of Middlebury College asked me the following question: "Pierre August Renoir (painter) and Jean Renoir (film maker) were both masters in their mediums. Can you think of any other father-child artists pairs who were similarly gifted in different media as these two were?" I could not think of any. The Bachs came to mind but they were all in the same medium (music). Irving Penn (photo) and Arthur Penn (film/theater, "Yeah, my brother Irv takes pictures . . .") were both masters of their media, but they were brothers, not father and son ... RFF cloud: any wisdom on the subject?

A solution to this (and I am not sure there is one) would require that the parent and child be both recognized as masters (e.g. If, hypothetically Frank Lloyd Wright had a child who was only a competent cellist, that wouldn't count).

Happy New Year all.

Ben Marks
 
Would we not first have to agree on the meaning of the word "master", in this context?

For example, Albert Wolff famously said: ""Try to explain to M Renoir that a woman's torso is not a mass of decomposing flesh." In other words, not everyone liked Renoir Senior's output or thought it technically competent. Renoir Junior's films are so "artistic" that it is much easier to find people who would switch them off 5 minutes in than people who would sit through them.

How then do we define families that meet this criterion?
 
The fact that you can find someone who doesn't like Renoir doesn't disqualify him a master. I agree that its a definitional problem though. Almost 100 years after A. Renoir's death, his name is common cultural currency worldwide. That's good enough for me. Or in J. Renoir's case, I think you would be hard pressed to find scholars of the medium who don't acknowledge his importance.

How about a "they can go beyond me, but never around me," definition?
 
father/son/daughter

father/son/daughter

Erwin Panofsky, art historian; son Wolfgang (Pief) Panofsky, particle physicist. Both very important in their fields.
 
his name is common cultural currency worldwide. That's good enough for me. Or in J. Renoir's case, I think you would be hard pressed to find scholars of the medium who don't acknowledge his importance.
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Is it adequate to go by what a small clique like? Surely this definition is just a popularity contest, in which case, would it not be best to only consider people from the mass entertainment fields?
 
It is not uncommon to inherit traits and to also pick things up over the years from the parents. Often, the father & son end up not at the same level of excellence in art.

John Lennon and Julian Lennon?
Bob Dylan and his son?
 
Sejanus.Aelianus said:
Is it adequate to go by what a small clique like? Surely this definition is just a popularity contest, in which case, would it not be best to only consider people from the mass entertainment fields?
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Nah. For the purposes of the question, consider me an elitist where art is concerned. If an artist wins a "popularity contest" among an academic group who devote their professional lives to studying a subject, I am sold.

Sejanus: don't worry so much about the definition. Do you have a suggestion? Personally, I am stumped, which is why I posed the question to the group.
 
raid said:
It is not uncommon to inherit traits and to also pick things up over the years from the parents. Often, the father & son end up not at the same level of excellence in art.

John Lennon and Julian Lennon?
Bob Dylan and his son?
Click to expand...

All true, Raid. But I am looking to the RFF cloud for artists in different fields (e.g. painting/filmmaking) rather than musicians (Bachs, Wainwrights, Lennons, Dylans, Shankar/Jones).
 
Well, easy to answer: Stella McCartney has not one, but two gifted parents.
Her father, Paul McCartney, is a famous songwriter and her mother, Linda McCartney born Eastman, was a more then competent photographer. Stella herself is a well known fashion designer.
 
For the purposes of the question, consider me an elitist where art is concerned.
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Well, in that case, I don't feel qualified to play. I have long considered elitism a disease of the small mind (please don't take that as a gratuitous insult, my opinion being worth no more than yours) and so wouldn't know how to select pairs that meet your definition.
 
Sejanus.Aelianus said:
Well, in that case, I don't feel qualified to play. I have long considered elitism a disease of the small mind (please don't take that as a gratuitous insult, my opinion being worth no more than yours) and so wouldn't know how to select pairs that meet your definition.
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Too bad. I thought your questions about the definition were preparation for a creative solution to the problem. One last try: hey, make a non-elitist suggestion for a solution if that's your thing.
 
hey, make a non-elitist suggestion for a solution if that's your thing.
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That would be impossible, would it not? The whole concept of "a master" without a clear definition of what constitutes mastery, is clearly oxymoronic.

There are, or were, good definitions of mastery laid down by the old trade guilds, but I doubt they would meet the present case. Let's just leave it that I consider your question an invitation to a popularity poll and I can't think of anyone I wish to nominate.

Enjoy 😀
 
Sejanus.Aelianus said:
That would be impossible, would it not? The whole concept of "a master" without a clear definition of what constitutes mastery, is clearly oxymoronic.

There are, or were, good definitions of mastery laid down by the old trade guilds, but I doubt they would meet the present case. Let's just leave it that I consider your question an invitation to a popularity poll and I can't think of anyone I wish to nominate.

Enjoy 😀
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That's OK. I was trying to use the RFF's vast resources (and excellent problem solving abilities) to fill in my own woefully inadequate knowledge.
 
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