andyturk
Established
Ever since the the D30 came out, I've been a Canon dSLR user. I held onto that body for a while but eventually upgraded to a 1D Mk II, which I still have. The 1D is a fantastic camera, but it's huge. So this summer, I took the plunge into the world of rangefinders and got myself an Epson R-D1.
After several several thousand exposure on the Epson (between 5K and 8K, I'd guess) I've started to notice some consistent problems in what I end up with from the R-D1. I'm sure operator error is the most significant cause, but I wonder if the camera itself contributes sometimes.
Here's are some problems that I've seen:
1. Front focusing
A significant percentage of my shots have the focus just a little bit too close. Using a 35mm lens, the focus is off by maybe an inch at a "loose" portrait distance. It's not much of an issue with wider lenses or smaller apertures, but it's still there. I've had great difficulty being able to get accurate focus at all with a 75mm lens at anything wider than F4.0. Since this problem shows up with different lenses and those same lenses work fine on my M6, I suspect it's a camera issue.
2. Contrasty Underexposure
I've been using AE (Auto Exposure) quite a bit. When an image has even a small patch of backlighting--say a piece of cloudy sky--then that shot is typically underexposed by a stop or more. In these cases, the highlight is still blown out and the shadows are typically washed out in noise. This may just be the way the meter is designed to work and I should avoid compositions with bright patches of sky. Even so, the meter on the 1D would do a much better job in the same conditions. When the scene isn't too contrasty, the exposures are just fine.
3. Misframed Shots
This one is a real puzzle. It doesn't happen often enough for me to blame it completely on the rangefinder, but I've got a surprisingly large collection of shots where the subject is just off to one side by a bit. I can understand this when I'm shooting with a 21mm or a 75mm lens, since the R-D1 doesn't have framelines for those focal lengths and I visually guess at where the frame is. But I've got portraits taken with a 35mm where I wanted to put someone dead center and they end up with part of an arm out of the frame. It's weird because these are often shots where I'd move around and pay close attention to what I was seeing in the viewfinder. Casual tests shooting rectangular objects around my apartment don't reveal any obvious flaws with the rangefinder, so maybe it's how I'm holding the camera or something.
4. Other Issues
My body seems to have a bunch of hot pixels. It's not really a big deal since ACR maps them out, but sometimes I have to go back in and clean shots up by hand. I avoid shooting JPG for this reason, since then I *always* have to fix the images. The discarding of the first shutter release in sleep mode drives me nuts. I'm sure that in another year or so I'll be used to it. The only other annoyance is that the grippy plastic is peeling off. Of course, I did lug the camera through the heat of SE Asia for two months and maybe that had something to do with it.
So these are the gripes. They may just be part of the personality of the camera, but none of these problems ever came up with my Canon digitals and they received similar (or much worse) treatment.
On the plus side, while I get a lower percentage of clean technical shots with the R-D1, I seem to get more images that work as interesting photographs. Maybe it's the lenses or simply the fact that I use a smaller camera differently than a larger one. These happy surprises are enough incentive to stick with the Epson and try to work around it's quirks.
Another advantage of the Epson (and rangefinders in general) is that the lenses are small and very sturdy. I've wrecked several Canon lenses, including the L variety, by dropping them on camping trips and vibrating them to death on bumpy motorcycle rides. While I haven't subjected the R-D1 body to that kind of punishment yet, I'm pretty sure the purely mechanical rangefinder lenses can put up with much more abuse than the delicate innards of EOS lenses.
On the whole, I really like shooting with the Epson. I'm going to have to be much more careful about my technique, but I think that's a solvable problem. I may also send my R-D1 into the factory and see if they can do something about the focus problem.
My hope is that within a year or so we'll have either a Digital M from Leica or an R-D2 that really delivers the digital rangefinder concept without the quality control problems in the R-D1.
After several several thousand exposure on the Epson (between 5K and 8K, I'd guess) I've started to notice some consistent problems in what I end up with from the R-D1. I'm sure operator error is the most significant cause, but I wonder if the camera itself contributes sometimes.
Here's are some problems that I've seen:
1. Front focusing
A significant percentage of my shots have the focus just a little bit too close. Using a 35mm lens, the focus is off by maybe an inch at a "loose" portrait distance. It's not much of an issue with wider lenses or smaller apertures, but it's still there. I've had great difficulty being able to get accurate focus at all with a 75mm lens at anything wider than F4.0. Since this problem shows up with different lenses and those same lenses work fine on my M6, I suspect it's a camera issue.
2. Contrasty Underexposure
I've been using AE (Auto Exposure) quite a bit. When an image has even a small patch of backlighting--say a piece of cloudy sky--then that shot is typically underexposed by a stop or more. In these cases, the highlight is still blown out and the shadows are typically washed out in noise. This may just be the way the meter is designed to work and I should avoid compositions with bright patches of sky. Even so, the meter on the 1D would do a much better job in the same conditions. When the scene isn't too contrasty, the exposures are just fine.
3. Misframed Shots
This one is a real puzzle. It doesn't happen often enough for me to blame it completely on the rangefinder, but I've got a surprisingly large collection of shots where the subject is just off to one side by a bit. I can understand this when I'm shooting with a 21mm or a 75mm lens, since the R-D1 doesn't have framelines for those focal lengths and I visually guess at where the frame is. But I've got portraits taken with a 35mm where I wanted to put someone dead center and they end up with part of an arm out of the frame. It's weird because these are often shots where I'd move around and pay close attention to what I was seeing in the viewfinder. Casual tests shooting rectangular objects around my apartment don't reveal any obvious flaws with the rangefinder, so maybe it's how I'm holding the camera or something.
4. Other Issues
My body seems to have a bunch of hot pixels. It's not really a big deal since ACR maps them out, but sometimes I have to go back in and clean shots up by hand. I avoid shooting JPG for this reason, since then I *always* have to fix the images. The discarding of the first shutter release in sleep mode drives me nuts. I'm sure that in another year or so I'll be used to it. The only other annoyance is that the grippy plastic is peeling off. Of course, I did lug the camera through the heat of SE Asia for two months and maybe that had something to do with it.
So these are the gripes. They may just be part of the personality of the camera, but none of these problems ever came up with my Canon digitals and they received similar (or much worse) treatment.
On the plus side, while I get a lower percentage of clean technical shots with the R-D1, I seem to get more images that work as interesting photographs. Maybe it's the lenses or simply the fact that I use a smaller camera differently than a larger one. These happy surprises are enough incentive to stick with the Epson and try to work around it's quirks.
Another advantage of the Epson (and rangefinders in general) is that the lenses are small and very sturdy. I've wrecked several Canon lenses, including the L variety, by dropping them on camping trips and vibrating them to death on bumpy motorcycle rides. While I haven't subjected the R-D1 body to that kind of punishment yet, I'm pretty sure the purely mechanical rangefinder lenses can put up with much more abuse than the delicate innards of EOS lenses.
On the whole, I really like shooting with the Epson. I'm going to have to be much more careful about my technique, but I think that's a solvable problem. I may also send my R-D1 into the factory and see if they can do something about the focus problem.
My hope is that within a year or so we'll have either a Digital M from Leica or an R-D2 that really delivers the digital rangefinder concept without the quality control problems in the R-D1.
S
Sean Reid
Guest
1. Front focusing: If it happens consistently with different lenses, send the camera to Don Goldberg (DAG) for adjustment. Ask if you want his address and I'll look it up.
2. I've always felt that metering should work in cooperation with human judgement - just watch the histogram when needed and tweak accordingly. No camera nails exposure the same way every time.
3. Might this be parallax from working close to the subject?
4. I've had all the problems you mention in this section and they are annoying.
Feel free to take the owner survey I'm doing for a long term review of the R-D1.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14162
Cheers,
Sean
2. I've always felt that metering should work in cooperation with human judgement - just watch the histogram when needed and tweak accordingly. No camera nails exposure the same way every time.
3. Might this be parallax from working close to the subject?
4. I've had all the problems you mention in this section and they are annoying.
Feel free to take the owner survey I'm doing for a long term review of the R-D1.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14162
Cheers,
Sean
loretdem
Established
1.
Don Goldberg MAY be able to help with the front focusing problem. Currently he is our only hope here is the US. You should contact him ASAP to find out if this problem is fixable by him. Probably is. Then again if your camera is still under warranty you might just want to contact Epson and get a replacement.
2.
The dynamic range of the sensor is limited like that of transparency film. Just the nature of the beast so meter carefully and deal with long tonal ranges as you would with slide film.
3.
The quality of the R-D1's viewfinder/rangefinder is now famously known to be inaccurate to say the least. Again it's just something one must learn to deal with. It's not a Leica. It's a very funky, very unique camera. Love it or leave it.
4.
More annoying quality control problems. Cosina Bessas suffer from similar complaints. It is astounding how many of us absolutely love this camera and put up with all this crap. I wonder if opinions will change once the digital Leica M shows up? Of course even then the R-D1 will be selling for half the price of the digital M. Even with all these problems and more, the R-D1 is still an extremely cool camera and I don't regret getting one because the photographs and the photographing with it are both fantastic. The only big problem is not with the camera itself but with Epson. If anyone believes that they're coming out with an R-D2 ever, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
Sean, I'd like to submit a revised survey to you once my camera returns from its mothership, if you'd be interested. A week or two I hope.
-Carlos
Don Goldberg MAY be able to help with the front focusing problem. Currently he is our only hope here is the US. You should contact him ASAP to find out if this problem is fixable by him. Probably is. Then again if your camera is still under warranty you might just want to contact Epson and get a replacement.
2.
The dynamic range of the sensor is limited like that of transparency film. Just the nature of the beast so meter carefully and deal with long tonal ranges as you would with slide film.
3.
The quality of the R-D1's viewfinder/rangefinder is now famously known to be inaccurate to say the least. Again it's just something one must learn to deal with. It's not a Leica. It's a very funky, very unique camera. Love it or leave it.
4.
More annoying quality control problems. Cosina Bessas suffer from similar complaints. It is astounding how many of us absolutely love this camera and put up with all this crap. I wonder if opinions will change once the digital Leica M shows up? Of course even then the R-D1 will be selling for half the price of the digital M. Even with all these problems and more, the R-D1 is still an extremely cool camera and I don't regret getting one because the photographs and the photographing with it are both fantastic. The only big problem is not with the camera itself but with Epson. If anyone believes that they're coming out with an R-D2 ever, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
Sean, I'd like to submit a revised survey to you once my camera returns from its mothership, if you'd be interested. A week or two I hope.
-Carlos
S
Sean Reid
Guest
Carlos,
Sure, please do.
Andy,
If the subject seems to be off to one side, it's likely parallax you're experiencing - this is endemic to a rangefinder camera at close distances. Otherwise, what one sees is that the capture is framed more loosely than it appeard in the finder - that's separate from parallax. I should also add that the framelines in a Leica M aren't accurate either. They're designed to allow for the slight cropping of a slide mount. I think that the reason that we especially notice the framing difference with the R-D1 so distinctly is that digital capture allows us to compare the view to the capture immediately. Comparing the view to the negative or print with a Leica M always involves some passage of time. I would like the R-D1 framelines to be more accurate but it's become second nature to me now to compose knowing that the edges of the picture will fall just outside the framelines - that works fairly well.
Cheers,
Sean
Sure, please do.
Andy,
If the subject seems to be off to one side, it's likely parallax you're experiencing - this is endemic to a rangefinder camera at close distances. Otherwise, what one sees is that the capture is framed more loosely than it appeard in the finder - that's separate from parallax. I should also add that the framelines in a Leica M aren't accurate either. They're designed to allow for the slight cropping of a slide mount. I think that the reason that we especially notice the framing difference with the R-D1 so distinctly is that digital capture allows us to compare the view to the capture immediately. Comparing the view to the negative or print with a Leica M always involves some passage of time. I would like the R-D1 framelines to be more accurate but it's become second nature to me now to compose knowing that the edges of the picture will fall just outside the framelines - that works fairly well.
Cheers,
Sean
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
"1. Front focusing
A significant percentage of my shots have the focus just a little bit too close. Using a 35mm lens, the focus is off by maybe an inch at a "loose" portrait distance. It's not much of an issue with wider lenses or smaller apertures, but it's still there. I've had great difficulty being able to get accurate focus at all with a 75mm lens at anything wider than F4.0. Since this problem shows up with different lenses and those same lenses work fine on my M6, I suspect it's a camera issue."
Carlos
If it is only the 35mm that has the front focusing problem on the R-D1 and it works fine on your M6 then I'm not so sure its easily fixed. This is exactly my problem with my 35mm Cron (3rd Series). It front focuses by a couple of inches at under 5 feet on my R-D1, but works fine on my Leica M4. It seems to be due to how the lens cam engages the cam follower in the camera. It would be possible to have the lens cam reground, but then the lens may not engage properly on the Leica causing focus problems there.
If you have the rangefinder adjusted to be correct with this lens on the R-D1 then you may have problems with other lenses. Its probably as well to check all of your lenses for front/rear focusing wide open and close up using the ruler test or similar (search to see my and others threads\posts on front focusing in this forum) to see if there is a consistant front focus problem. Once you are certain of the full nature of the problem you will know best how to proceed.
I have learnt to live with the problem, as it only becomes such close up and wide open, DOF covering otherwise, by rear focusing a little. The attraction of an exchange of a 35mm Cron ASPH looms though as no one seems to have had a problem with this lens.
A significant percentage of my shots have the focus just a little bit too close. Using a 35mm lens, the focus is off by maybe an inch at a "loose" portrait distance. It's not much of an issue with wider lenses or smaller apertures, but it's still there. I've had great difficulty being able to get accurate focus at all with a 75mm lens at anything wider than F4.0. Since this problem shows up with different lenses and those same lenses work fine on my M6, I suspect it's a camera issue."
Carlos
If it is only the 35mm that has the front focusing problem on the R-D1 and it works fine on your M6 then I'm not so sure its easily fixed. This is exactly my problem with my 35mm Cron (3rd Series). It front focuses by a couple of inches at under 5 feet on my R-D1, but works fine on my Leica M4. It seems to be due to how the lens cam engages the cam follower in the camera. It would be possible to have the lens cam reground, but then the lens may not engage properly on the Leica causing focus problems there.
If you have the rangefinder adjusted to be correct with this lens on the R-D1 then you may have problems with other lenses. Its probably as well to check all of your lenses for front/rear focusing wide open and close up using the ruler test or similar (search to see my and others threads\posts on front focusing in this forum) to see if there is a consistant front focus problem. Once you are certain of the full nature of the problem you will know best how to proceed.
I have learnt to live with the problem, as it only becomes such close up and wide open, DOF covering otherwise, by rear focusing a little. The attraction of an exchange of a 35mm Cron ASPH looms though as no one seems to have had a problem with this lens.
Last edited:
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
FWIW until I really optimized my RF (which included both Don Goldberg adjusting the baseline -- inside the body, and my own later recalibration of the controls under the flash shoe using the Nikon eyepiece magnifier DG-2 ), I would find that most lenses focussed correctly, and one or two did not. When all the settings were correct, the only lens which was "out" was my 75/1.4, which is also just a bit "out" on a Leica M.
Bottom line: I would not conclude that it is your lens that is "out"until everything has been carefully adjusted, and it is also "out" on a Leica M.
Ed
Bottom line: I would not conclude that it is your lens that is "out"until everything has been carefully adjusted, and it is also "out" on a Leica M.
Ed