Grumble - Film Sticking On Paterson Reels

[jyl]

I'm getting kind of frustrated with my Paterson System developing reels. Althought they are pretty new (< 1 yr), clean and dry, I find that one out of four rolls gets stuck while winding on the reel. I have to pull the film off the reel and try again, sometimes twice. Meanwhile my hands are getting sweaty inside the changing bag and occasionally a negative gets buckled.

Is there a trick to avoiding these stuck rolls? I use 36-exp Ilford films, cut them square after the leader tongue, sometimes I even round the corners to reduce hang-ups (doesn't seem to make any difference).

The other thing I don't like is the time it takes to seal the Paterson lids, and even then I usually have some chemical leaking out onto my hands. A minor irritation.

Should I just switch to metal reels and tanks? I've only used a metal reel once, at a rental darkroom when they didn't have any Paterson reels, but it didn't seem hard at all. The metal stuff is kind of expensive new - I use 5-reel tanks - but I might be able to find a used set in good condition, if I know what to look for.

 

[peterc]

I switched to metal reels and tanks. The Patterson reels were just too annoying.

Peter

 

[ChrisN]

Never had the problem with the film sticking, but I only use up to 30 exposure rolls.

Re the leaky lid - push the lid on, then press on the lid in the centre while slightly lifting the edge of the lid at one point only - some air will escape - then press the edge down firmly again. This creates a slight vacuum in the tank which keeps the lid held down tight, and no leaks.

 

[T_om]

I have always been a fan of metal tanks and reels. No question about it, they just work better, load faster, last longer and have zero problems if you don't bend them up.

Look on eBay, quality metal tanks and reels are going for almost nothing nowadays.

Honeywell-Nikor, Kindermann and Hewes all make good gear.

Tom

 

[jlw]

I've used the Paterson tanks and reels for a long time and have never had any problems with them. I find them much easier to use than the metal ones.

I never have sticking problems, either. I think the secret is to keep the reels clean and make sure they're fully dry before using them again. If you think your reels may not be clean (from chemical residue etc.) one way to clean them is to put them through the dishwasher without adding detergent. Or you can just soak them for a couple of days in clean water, then rinse and let dry.

The only thing that will make film stick on a clean, dry reel is snagging of a corner on one of the "spokes" of the reel. Rounding the corners, as you have tried, helps avoid this. So does making sure you trim the film between sprocket holes rather than through a sprocket hole.

What I like to do to get a good trim is NOT rewind the film all the way into the cartridge. Before loading, while still out in the light, I cut off the film leader and make sure I've snipped between sprocket holes, then round the corners. Once the lights are off, this is the end I insert into the reel.

If this is inconvenient for you, an alternative is to try a different technique for loading the reel. Rather than pushing it in from the outside and using a twisting motion to let the little balls push it forward, load it from the center as you would a metal reel. Practice first, but it's easy: flex the film crossways slightly, feed it into the center of the reel, push it forward until it stops, then turn the reel to pull the film on as you keep the film slightly flexed. This is also a good way to load if you ever have to re-use a reel that's still slightly wet.

Don't let those metal-reel nostalgists overwhelm you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Paterson stuff, and it will work fine for you if you apply the hints above.

 

[back alley]

I've used the Paterson tanks and reels for a long time and have never had any problems with them. I find them much easier to use than the metal ones.

I never have sticking problems, either. I think the secret is to keep the reels clean and make sure they're fully dry before using them again. If you think your reels may not be clean (from chemical residue etc.) one way to clean them is to put them through the dishwasher without adding detergent. Or you can just soak them for a couple of days in clean water, then rinse and let dry.

The only thing that will make film stick on a clean, dry reel is snagging of a corner on one of the "spokes" of the reel. Rounding the corners, as you have tried, helps avoid this. So does making sure you trim the film between sprocket holes rather than through a sprocket hole.

What I like to do to get a good trim is NOT rewind the film all the way into the cartridge. Before loading, while still out in the light, I cut off the film leader and make sure I've snipped between sprocket holes, then round the corners. Once the lights are off, this is the end I insert into the reel.

If this is inconvenient for you, an alternative is to try a different technique for loading the reel. Rather than pushing it in from the outside and using a twisting motion to let the little balls push it forward, load it from the center as you would a metal reel. Practice first, but it's easy: flex the film crossways slightly, feed it into the center of the reel, push it forward until it stops, then turn the reel to pull the film on as you keep the film slightly flexed. This is also a good way to load if you ever have to re-use a reel that's still slightly wet.

Don't let those metal-reel nostalgists overwhelm you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Paterson stuff, and it will work fine for you if you apply the hints above.

i totally agree, couldn't have said it better myself.
joe

 

[jano]

What jlw is saying, mine don't jam anymore..

I had problems with the film jamming up, and from what I could tell inside the bag without actually seeing it, it was along those two little ball things near the feed. If it gets stuck inside the reel, try to use your nail to roll the balls around to losen them up. And when you wash/dry the reels, pay special attention to that little area the most. Of course, I've only done about a dozen rolls now, so I'm no expert by any means -- but I am a quick study

jano

 

[Branestawm]

You could try running a soft pencil around the grooves. This puts a thin coating of graphite on which acts as a dry lubricant. I don't know what camera you use but I've read that this problem can occur with films shot with Leicas etc in which the take up spool rolls the film in the opposite direction to the cassette. If the film is loaded onto the spiral straight after being rewound it is trying to bend in the "wrong" direction round the spiral causing it to jam. But the other guys are right, the spirals must be spotlessly clean to work reliably.

 

[John Bragg]

I know what you mean as I have had similar problems from time to time. Hot hands in a changing bag can cause enough condensation on the film to make it slightly sticky. Also the take up spool of most cameras tends to give films a reverse curl and just leaving it a day or so to "settle" in the cassette can work wonders ! It is also something that some types of film seem more prone to. New Tri-x is much more user friendly than its predecessor. Hope this helps ? J.B.

 

[Fred]

I have two reals and used them for over two years. I find a 36 roll gets tight for the final four to six frames. This started to get worse in recent months. Sometimes tapping the reels on the side would clear the sticking a tad but had to be carefull that the film did not pop out of the guides. I think the problem was not with the little steel balls but with the inner part of the spiral binding.

I always made sure that the film was well washed in the tank using a washer hose for about 20 minutes. I also used a wetting agent prior to washing.

Take the reels apart and give them a good clean using a soft tooth brush in the grooves to get rid of all the residue (you cant always see it) and let them dry naturally. Problem solved.

[edit] Got the above from advice on another thread recently, cant remember the title though.

I've not tried the metal reels yet but I here that there is a knack to using them, couldn't be that much harder than loading a bottom loader Leica M in the dark, can it?

 

[VictorM.]

I've been using the same Paterson reels since early 1971! SS has a few advantages: using less chemistry for one..but drop a stainless steel reel on a hard floor and it will likely bend and become impossible to load. I also have fewer problems with agitation marks on film with Paterson reels. In more than thirty years, I've broken one plastic reel by dropping it when the little ball popped out.

 

[GeneW]

I've been using the same Paterson reels since early 1971! SS has a few advantages: using less chemistry for one..but drop a stainless steel reel on a hard floor and it will likely bend and become impossible to load. I also have fewer problems with agitation marks on film with Paterson reels. In more than thirty years, I've broken one plastic reel by dropping it when the little ball popped out.

Victor, you beat me by a year. I still use three Paterson reels I purchased in 1972, plus a fourth I picked up last year when I got a 5-reel tank. Still have the original tank too, though it's always leaked a little. The newer tank design is nicer.

Prior to the Patersons I owned a number of SS tanks and reels. They're good too, though not ideal for use in a changing bag.

Gene

 

[derevaun]

Rounding off the corners works for me too. I read somewhere that wetting agent can gunk up plastic reels. Hot wash and cold rinse should mitigate that.