Gulf Oil Spill

Taking bets:

What will be the "official" total for the BP Horizon oil debacle?

Higher or lower than the Exxon Valdez incident?

I am betting that it is already more than Valdez. This is getting serious, folks.😱
 
In the late 70' the French oil company Elf (now part of Total) drilled an experimental well at the Troll Field outside Norway. Deep underneath the gas they found a mix of oil and gas under enormous preassure. After several kicks Norwegian Oil Exploration Directorate stopped the drilling, claiming it was too dangerous and that the current technology back then could not handle such a find. That was at 160 meters of water and 7500 ft down.

BP was drilling 10,000 ft down in 360 meters of water. On the limits of what is possible.

Some informative links here:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/may2010/pers-m24.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/may2010/oils-m21.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/may2010/gulf-m22.shtml
 
top kill didn't apparently kill anything, so guess we have to wait for relief wells drilled ? something that takes months.

dunno how accurate this list is, but current spill definitely isn't anything new...sad to say.
 
robklurfield said:
raid, we'll all pay for it.

all these companies made money, BP included, and probably plenty of it. by federal law, however, BP's liability for the clean up is limited to $75M. a ridiculously low amount given the probable magnitude of this tragedy. so, these companies make out like bandits while the citizenry and taxpayers are left holding the bag. for some reason, congress saw fit to protect companies like this from being liable for TOTAL actual costs (a law passed, BTW, AFTER the Exxon Valdez accident).

we americans are so dumb sometimes that most folks probably don't understand that, as a fungible asset, there's no guarantee that any of the oil drilled and pumped in the US will even get used or sold to customers in the US. so while politicians wrangled over idiotic notions like "drill baby, drill," the reality it is that not only are we profligate wasters of resources, but we are easily duped into thinking drilling here somehow assures us of a ready supply of energy (ie, that we should drill here so we can end our dependence on foreign oil... A COMPLETE FALLACY; once that oil is out of the ground, the oil co's can do whatever the hell they want with it; it's not our oil).

it would be nice to think that the upside to this disaster is that we'll come to our senses and change our ways, moving to safer, less polluting, renewable, environmentally friendlier ways of powering our lives while curtailing all of our waste. as a terminal cynic and disappointed idealist, I doubt it.

if BP and the other companies involved can't or won't cover ALL of the costs of fixing this, maybe we ought to nationalize 'em and take all their assets here in the US.

as to fault: I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that if I run you over while driving a rent-a-car, your heirs will sue my butt off. if my lawyer thinks he's got case against the manufacturer of the car or the rental agency for some defect that contributed to the accident (let's say, I was driving a Toyota), I've probably got to go after them for their share by bringing them in as third-party defendants or launching a separate suit. the victim of the accident shouldn't be ham-strung by any of this. If I can't come up with funds to cover my liability, maybe you end owning my house. well, maybe we need to take BP's proverbial house.

ok, enough venting for me for tonight. all I can say is this sucks.
Click to expand...

It more than sucks ! The rest of your post is about right. We must find some other source of energy to support our vacuos lifestyles otherwise we will all be living in caves again.
I shot my first 'oil spill' back in the mid 70s and although it was not on this scale the site of struggling birdlife on the beaches was just heartbreaking .
As a pro PJ it was another one of those assignments I just despaired at having to photograph.
However much BP have to pay it will never be enough.
 
emraphoto said:
"It's sad especially because it's not sudden. You can see it coming. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion."

it is estimated that between the late 60's and present day upwards of 100 million barrels of oil have been spilt in the Niger Delta.

BP (now a Shell subsidiary) reported over 3.5 billion dollars in profits for the 3rd quarter of 2009.
Click to expand...
Hi John,
This is not meant as any sort of 'political' assertion but there is a famous 'cartoon' published in one of our National Newspapers ( The Daily Mirror) during WW2 .
It showed a desperate survivor clinging to a float after his oil tanker had been torpedoed in the North Atlantic and the caption read :- ' Shareholders recieved a huge windfall bonus this year as the price of oil rocketed '.........................
As I have said in another post,whatever BP have to pay it will never be enough !
Peter.
 
Last edited:
jarski said:
top kill didn't apparently kill anything, so guess we have to wait for relief wells drilled ? something that takes months.

dunno how accurate this list is, but current spill definitely isn't anything new...sad to say.
Click to expand...

Jut to point out the obvious, if you click on all the related articles, almost all spills listed are oil tankers, ships, or oil barges that wrecked. I could only find three or four drilling rigs listed that had a similar fate as the Horizon.
 
Here in Norway, - we are just a tiny oil producer compared to USA, we are just shocked to find that a company is allowed to operate so freely and unregulated. Particularly at such depts. Without having to meticulously report what they are doing and have a legal framework of regulations to follow.
As they have to do here.

This spill is not only BP's fault. The spill is also a result of a deregulated industry and too little government intervention. (But that's how you want it over there; the less government intervention the better, you seem to think).

Instead of insisting that it now is a job for the US government to lead the operation, - not a foreign company, US media just seems to be 'counting money'; how much BP has to pay up in the end of the day (whenever that is). If BP goes bankrupt, which is the most realistic scenario, you will get nothing.

Some of the blame have to be placed in Washington. Not just at the boardrooms of BP, Transocean (originally Norwegian, by the way) and Halliburton.
 
This image and others are already posted on another thread....
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90520&highlight=the+gulf

4661100434_1133473562_b.jpg


I was in NOLA over the weekend. Imagine my surprise at seeing the NOAA's ship, the Thomas Jefferson, docked on the river instead of being out in the Gulf where one might have expected it to be in the midst of this crisis.

While taking some shots of the ship, I happened upon a local press person with whom I shared my surprise. He said with no surprise of his own that the ship was in port to provide tours to visiting members of Congress. Not exactly the way I like to see my tax dollars spent in the midst of the largest environmental disaster. I'll allow that this was Friday, May 30, the day that the President was visiting. Still, I'd rather that ship were out on the open water doing whatever it can to mitigate this awful mess.
 
Olsen said:
The spill is also a result of a deregulated industry and too little government intervention. (But that's how you want it over there; the less government intervention the better, you seem to think).
Click to expand...

Some right-wingers are arguing that the spill was due to TOO MUCH regulation! They're saying if the oil rig was near the shore in the shallow waters, then it would be much easier to fix the leak.

(Which is total BS, for a multitude of reasons.)
 
antiquark said:
Some right-wingers are arguing that the spill was due to TOO MUCH regulation! They're saying if the oil rig was near the shore in the shallow waters, then it would be much easier to fix the leak.

(Which is total BS, for a multitude of reasons.)
Click to expand...

This 'less government' argument is so obvious to the advantage of a small rich elite. It surprises me that it has such a wide following in USA (It is even being used in the political debate here in Norway, now). This 'Tea Party Movement' is also portrayed as a 'grass root movement'. Which it is not. It is staged and financed by the same rich elite.

Still, this huge oil spill is a reminder to us all. It has effectively stopped plans to increase offshore oil exploration into the fish rich waters off Lofoten here in Norway. Saving a fragile government constallation in the process. For not to say close to 80% of the fish resources of Europe...

Nothing is so bad that it is not good for something...
 
Olsen, the Tea Party is more 'grass roots' than you indicate (though I'm NOT a follower myself). It isn't really controlled by the people who originally set it in motion anymore. That may someday be it's downfall. In the meantime, some of the Republican establishment that had cheered the formation of Tea Parties have felt the sting themselves (Mitch McConnell's guy for one). And the 'small government' idea plays well over here to people who have been wronged by governments in the past. Not only our own government, but many of the immigrants and refugees who got through all the hoops and made it over here. One problem I see over here is convincing the populace they are less likely in the 21st century to get screwed by their federal and state governments than they are of getting screwed by profit-seeking megacompanies like BP, Exxon-Mobil, etc.
 
ebolton said:
Olsen, the Tea Party is more 'grass roots' than you indicate (though I'm NOT a follower myself). It isn't really controlled by the people who originally set it in motion anymore. That may someday be it's downfall. In the meantime, some of the Republican establishment that had cheered the formation of Tea Parties have felt the sting themselves (Mitch McConnell's guy for one). And the 'small government' idea plays well over here to people who have been wronged by governments in the past. Not only our own government, but many of the immigrants and refugees who got through all the hoops and made it over here. One problem I see over here is convincing the populace they are less likely in the 21st century to get screwed by their federal and state governments than they are of getting screwed by profit-seeking megacompanies like BP, Exxon-Mobil, etc.
Click to expand...

The 'information consultants' behind the launch of the Tea Party can be tied to the Carlyle Group, if that ring any bell to you. That it no longer is in control of the originators could well be. The sad thing is that the Tea Party thing leads the political discussion nowhere and is very damaging for USA, to my opinion. It is 'deregulation' and 'little or no taxes' and 'small government' that has brought you where you are today.

We here in Western Europe (at least) don't share with the Americans the bad experiences with a strong state. We see it as an advantage. We would always be more sceptical about a private company than a governmental institution. Those of us here in Europe who don't like a strong state are just too obvious to reveal. Like the Sicilian Mafia, for one. Which shows that even though we want a strong state, we don't always have it.

'Do as we say, don't do as we do....' 🙂

Indeed, I would say that weak groups like refugees and immigrants are better off in a state with a strong government. Like in Sweden. Please mind that there are more refugees from Iraq in Sweden than in USA today. The sort of immigrants that are doing well in USA are the highly educated ones from countries where a university degree costs a fraction of what it does in USA. Like from Russia. It would not surprise me that some of these (not all) would prefer a 'small state'.
 
Going way off topic BUT...believe me, I'm not arguing the Tea Partiers have it right! Just that it is an oversimplification to consider them a field army of the conservative elite.

And one could argue the immigrants that really 'flourish' here are the minimally educated illegals. While politicians on the right argue for immigration reform, pandering to a large and painstakingly cultivated portion of their base, the monied segment of their base is working against it. Those poor souls provide cheap labor, and keep the cost of services down. I say 'flourish' not because they have it well here, since they don't...but I'm sure it is better than the hell holes they are fleeing from- or else why would they come over?
 
I am not much into birds and have only sporadically followed news of this oil leak, but those photos are both strong and terrible at the same time. Few things these days make me stop in my tracks but these did.

Can such a spill be cleaned up?

I presume this far exceeds the Exxon Valdez from years back?
 
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