koven
Well-known
I pretty much sealed a deal with one of the biggest publishing companies if not the biggest in the world to take some pics for them. I was excited as hell because this could be the biggest shoot of my career. I was in the office with the two head marketing guys and we were going back and forth without saying and offer and they let one slip which was a bit more than I was expecting and I accepted, I probably could have got more.
I get my base fee plus they asked about a budget for expenses. They wont be able to pay me until early January because that's just how the pay goes. They asked me to write out a list of things I needed, i added a few things essential for the shoot and a few extra things like memory sticks and two lens rentals.
They agreed and they said to invoice my fee plus the expenses. Is this normal? I thought they would just buy the things I need or cut me a cheque for them. Its going to be hard to come out of pocket almost 500 bucks before Christmas.
I get my base fee plus they asked about a budget for expenses. They wont be able to pay me until early January because that's just how the pay goes. They asked me to write out a list of things I needed, i added a few things essential for the shoot and a few extra things like memory sticks and two lens rentals.
They agreed and they said to invoice my fee plus the expenses. Is this normal? I thought they would just buy the things I need or cut me a cheque for them. Its going to be hard to come out of pocket almost 500 bucks before Christmas.
froyd
Veteran
From the client side, I can tell you that's how I work with most external agencies, consultants, and contributors. We pay their fee, and they submit a bill with expenses that we pay within 30 days.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Right, this seems pretty typical. More to the point, do you have any of this in writing from them??
Tony Whitney
Well-known
I've worked for publishing companies in North America for over 40 years both as an employee and a freelancer and never yet encountered one that paid anything up front. If magazines are involved, they normally don't pay until after the date of publication - after all, they don't get paid by advertisers until after (sometimes well after) the magazine comes out. As an editor, I may have paid one or two people in advance by bending the rules a little, but if you're pitching a new client and it's a reputable company, you're not creating the best impression by "pleading poverty." A publisher will not have the time to go shopping for bits and pieces you need for the job - that's really your concern. To sum up, for most publishers, an invoice for all the work (including expenses) after the job is done is perfectly normal. Good luck anyway...TW
CliveC
Well-known
If the company is big enough, I don't see a problem with this. Just get things in writing and signed.
I'm in the magazine business and we don't pay ahead of time for our writers, we always get invoices, then up to 30 days to pay.
I'm in the magazine business and we don't pay ahead of time for our writers, we always get invoices, then up to 30 days to pay.
DougFord
on the good foot
Congratulations on landing the job.
Scrambler
Well-known
If it's unaffordable, get the contract and have a talk to your local friendly bank manager about a business line of credit/ overdraft. Had to do this myself when I went as a contractor (not in photography!) many years ago.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Get this book and read it ASAP and it will pay for itself 10000x over:
http://zackarias.com/for-photographers/photo-resources/photography-qa-the-book/
(There are plenty of other good books but Arias writes in an accessible style.)
Basically get a credit card or two but be super stingy about actually using it. You probably don't really need additional equipment if they liked what you already did... and if you do, borrow it rather than go into debt. Equipment does not make you a better photographer, repeat.
And get any agreements in writing, signed by an authorizing person.
If it's Getty or some big publisher taking advantage of a Flickr hobbyist then be super careful and skeptical. What you think is great money often isn't once you study the terms.
http://zackarias.com/for-photographers/photo-resources/photography-qa-the-book/
(There are plenty of other good books but Arias writes in an accessible style.)
Basically get a credit card or two but be super stingy about actually using it. You probably don't really need additional equipment if they liked what you already did... and if you do, borrow it rather than go into debt. Equipment does not make you a better photographer, repeat.
And get any agreements in writing, signed by an authorizing person.
If it's Getty or some big publisher taking advantage of a Flickr hobbyist then be super careful and skeptical. What you think is great money often isn't once you study the terms.
pepeguitarra
Well-known
Congrats. At my work place they hire photographers from time to time to cover some events. They usually pay after photos are submitted in on a cd and the public affairs person has reviewed and accepted the work. Invoice is sent and payment may take up to 30 days. Do you need a loan?
'
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Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
It's also worth knowing that any promise on payment dates from the business side may not be upheld by the accounts department. While the business may ask, in good faith, for 30 days credit, the time from your putting in the invoice to receiving payment may be as long as 90 days.
Even though, here in the UK, the law allows creditors to automatically add interest charges to overdue accounts, large customers simply ignore this. They know that small creditors will swallow their pride and wait for the money, fearing the loss of future business with the customer.
Even though, here in the UK, the law allows creditors to automatically add interest charges to overdue accounts, large customers simply ignore this. They know that small creditors will swallow their pride and wait for the money, fearing the loss of future business with the customer.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
koven
Well-known
thanks for the replies guys.
I'm just going to lower my expenses and cover them myself, the two big items were the lens rentals but I don't really need that.
A lot of the expenses were for stuff I already need anyway so I'll try to look at it as buying a gift for myself.
One thing I noticed about the meeting is that these guys don't really know much or seem to care about photography, they were pretty much we want 4 shots that look like this and 3 that look like this but do more if you can. I definitely lack experience at this level but they seem to like my work and my passion. Hopefully this goes well.
I'm just going to lower my expenses and cover them myself, the two big items were the lens rentals but I don't really need that.
A lot of the expenses were for stuff I already need anyway so I'll try to look at it as buying a gift for myself.
One thing I noticed about the meeting is that these guys don't really know much or seem to care about photography, they were pretty much we want 4 shots that look like this and 3 that look like this but do more if you can. I definitely lack experience at this level but they seem to like my work and my passion. Hopefully this goes well.
Boris Stupak
Well-known
I used to ask for an advance covering expenses and full payment after acceptance.
This was years ago and I don't know if things have changed. My photography clients were large magazines and publishing houses, and I was known to them as reliable, so maybe that made a difference.
I now do commercial copywriting and get basically the same terms. Half up front and half on delivery after lawyer review.
koven, it wouldn't hurt to call them and ask for an advance to cover your expenses. Act confident, don't discuss anything other than producing exactly the shots they want. Don't talk about your "passion", just remark confidently that you have thought about the shots they want, and you are fine with doing them expertly.
This is a big deal for you, but a relatively small matter for them, just something to get off their minds since they have hired an expert, who is you.
This was years ago and I don't know if things have changed. My photography clients were large magazines and publishing houses, and I was known to them as reliable, so maybe that made a difference.
I now do commercial copywriting and get basically the same terms. Half up front and half on delivery after lawyer review.
koven, it wouldn't hurt to call them and ask for an advance to cover your expenses. Act confident, don't discuss anything other than producing exactly the shots they want. Don't talk about your "passion", just remark confidently that you have thought about the shots they want, and you are fine with doing them expertly.
This is a big deal for you, but a relatively small matter for them, just something to get off their minds since they have hired an expert, who is you.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
What Frank said x100.
I am about halfway thru this book and it is worth its weight in gold in terms of business advice for photographers. Zack knows his stuff - he's the real deal.
And congratulations!!
Vince Lupo
Whatever
If you lack experience at this level, I would not let them know about it! I wouldn't ask for expenses up front - you're a pro, and you have to act like you don't need the money, and your covering the expenses is no problem.
And don't forget to mark everything up - but hopefully you already know that.
And don't forget to mark everything up - but hopefully you already know that.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Vince,
Exactly! The money? A mere bagatelle. "I do this because I enjoy it, and as a result I am the best in the world at it. You pay me because I am so brilliant". (Not in so many words, and not to their face, of course -- but that's the impression to create.)
Cheers,
R.
Boris Stupak
Well-known
I disagree. There's nothing wrong with asking for an advance. Don't be afraid of your shadow.
emraphoto
Veteran
actually, what Roger and Vince have brought forth is 100% correct. you provide what they need, at no headache or concern to them and they pay you afterwards. even if you have to beg, borrow or steal something to get the work done. that's how it is.
congrats a whole bunch man!
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
Indeed. Remember the old saying that "the customer is always right" and you won't go far wrong.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I looked at your site and now I understand why they'd want you to shoot youth-hipster culture. Congrats. I doubt I'd change any equipment in midstream, wait until you get paid and use it to keep pressing forward.
It's always good to be prudent and business like. However trying to present yourself as a consummate professional photographer and hiding facts like your experience level, equipment, etc. is not a good way to start. JUST BE HONEST. I wouldn't go in with starry eyes and volunteer that you're over your head or intimidated, don't be a rube... but I certainly would ask as many questions as possible, even if they might reveal your lack of experience. If they have any common sense then they know where you're at already.
The hard NY beaten down experienced part of me wonders what kind of scam this could be but as long as you don't go in debt or do anything illegal or get sued then what's the downside? ;-p Seriously get the model and property release aspect solid before you get sued for publishing photos of someone doing something sketchy, people sue for sport these days.
It's always good to be prudent and business like. However trying to present yourself as a consummate professional photographer and hiding facts like your experience level, equipment, etc. is not a good way to start. JUST BE HONEST. I wouldn't go in with starry eyes and volunteer that you're over your head or intimidated, don't be a rube... but I certainly would ask as many questions as possible, even if they might reveal your lack of experience. If they have any common sense then they know where you're at already.
The hard NY beaten down experienced part of me wonders what kind of scam this could be but as long as you don't go in debt or do anything illegal or get sued then what's the downside? ;-p Seriously get the model and property release aspect solid before you get sued for publishing photos of someone doing something sketchy, people sue for sport these days.