myoptic3
Well-known
I wonder if someone would be kind enough to steer me in the right direction regarding hand held metering. I recently purchased an M3, my first non metered camera. It hasn't arrived yet buy my meter did, a neat Gossen Scout 2. I thought I would get a feel for using it by comparing it to the in-camera meters of some of my cameras that I know meter correctly. Surprise! All three of the cameras do not agree w/ themselves, and one of them is wildly off even though it takes great pics. I used a G1 w/ a 90 lens, and on my light source got a shutter speed of 1/1400 at f4. Next,my Nikon 8008s, which I am sure does the best job of metering, shows 1/250 at f4. It has a 35 70 2.8 lens on it. My last camera, a Canon A1 w/ a 50 1.4 lens showed 1/500 at f4. I gave up comparing the Gossen to them as there is no way to do it. What am I doing wrong?
clarence
ダメ
Different cameras have different metering patterns. Some only calculate the luminescence of a spot in the center of the frame, others take a general, wide angle reading across the whole frame, while more advanced cameras may have sophisticated matrix metering patterns that combine readings with different weightages all over the frame.
If you ensure that the ASA / ISO settings on all cameras are the same, and you fill the frame with a planar surface that is equally bright in all areas, you should get similar readings.
Clarence
If you ensure that the ASA / ISO settings on all cameras are the same, and you fill the frame with a planar surface that is equally bright in all areas, you should get similar readings.
Clarence
FPjohn
Well-known
Hello:
Try using the Scout in the incident mode and relate your readings to the "sunny f16" rule ie the exposure rules on the film box.
The alternative is to read a 18% grey card or your palm and open one stop.
Yours
Frank
Try using the Scout in the incident mode and relate your readings to the "sunny f16" rule ie the exposure rules on the film box.
The alternative is to read a 18% grey card or your palm and open one stop.
Yours
Frank
BillBingham2
Registered User
Lots of things an influence reflective metering. As suggested use you meter in incident mode and check it vs the sunny 16 rule. I use my hand held meters for either incident or spot readings. I move my incident dome into the same lighting mix the part of the subject I want to meter and shot with that reading.
Keep in mind that the sensor on your meter probably has a very large angle of acceptance so comparing her with a 90mm might not work. Your meter might have the acceptance angle you could find if you mounted a 25mm lens on your G1. This might be one of the causes of the difference in reading.
An 18% gray card was mentioned above. You can find them in the back of an information treasure trove the Kodak Master Photo Guide, get one. Then compare your in camera meters to your new hand held. They should be a lot closer. The photo guide is small and old versions are packed with great info.
Hope this helps.
B2 (;->
Keep in mind that the sensor on your meter probably has a very large angle of acceptance so comparing her with a 90mm might not work. Your meter might have the acceptance angle you could find if you mounted a 25mm lens on your G1. This might be one of the causes of the difference in reading.
An 18% gray card was mentioned above. You can find them in the back of an information treasure trove the Kodak Master Photo Guide, get one. Then compare your in camera meters to your new hand held. They should be a lot closer. The photo guide is small and old versions are packed with great info.
Hope this helps.
B2 (;->
Sam R
Established
Photo basics
Photo basics
Thanks Frank.....so many people don't know how to meter correctly. Another good way is to meter off green grass, this usually gives the same as grey card reading.
Photo basics
FPjohn said:
Thanks Frank.....so many people don't know how to meter correctly. Another good way is to meter off green grass, this usually gives the same as grey card reading.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
What are you shooting?
Tranny is keyed to highlight (brightest area), i.e. shadows are left to go dark. Incident will work fine.
Neg (colour or B+W) is keyed to shadows, i.e. highlights are recovered by reduced development, soft paper or dodging/burning, or any combination thereof. 'Favour' (= 'point the meter towards') the shadows (darkest areas).
Grey cards are a poor substitute for incident light metering; no film speed system is based on grey cards. See
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps 18 per cent.html
for a more in-depth look at what they are good for and what they aren't good for.
It is quite hard to over-expose neg films to the point of unusability -- a stop hardly matters (though you lose some sharpness, and with non-chromogenic films grain gets bigger), 2 stops should be OK, 3 stops may well be OK -- so a lot of people who think they are being very precise, but rate neg films at 1/2 the ISO speed or less, are actually being saved by film latitude.
Cheers,
R.
Tranny is keyed to highlight (brightest area), i.e. shadows are left to go dark. Incident will work fine.
Neg (colour or B+W) is keyed to shadows, i.e. highlights are recovered by reduced development, soft paper or dodging/burning, or any combination thereof. 'Favour' (= 'point the meter towards') the shadows (darkest areas).
Grey cards are a poor substitute for incident light metering; no film speed system is based on grey cards. See
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps 18 per cent.html
for a more in-depth look at what they are good for and what they aren't good for.
It is quite hard to over-expose neg films to the point of unusability -- a stop hardly matters (though you lose some sharpness, and with non-chromogenic films grain gets bigger), 2 stops should be OK, 3 stops may well be OK -- so a lot of people who think they are being very precise, but rate neg films at 1/2 the ISO speed or less, are actually being saved by film latitude.
Cheers,
R.
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BillBingham2
Registered User
I was under the impression that the 18% gray card is what allows reflective meters to measure the same as a incident meter. They are used for calibration of reflective light meters so everyone is metering the same thing. Making the surface and color an apples to apples sort of thing. Something the Great Yellow Father gave us years and years ago.
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not really. Look at the shape of an Invercone or even a dome and the response is necessarily different. As I say, a grey card is a poor substitute for an incident reading, dating from the days when incident meters were rare. Check the link.BillBingham2 said:
Also, calibrating a spot meter to a grey card is worthless. It needs to be calibrated to shadow readings (neg) and highlight (tranny). The 18% reading is a compromise for the benefit of those who don't actually understand metering, but think they do. The first successful spot meter (still a cult meter today) didn't even bother with a grey reading: SEI Photometer.
Cheers,
R.