Hand holding speeds?

C

chiller

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Most of my photographic life has been done using a tripod. 5x4 and Hasselblad but recently I got a Mamiya Six folder and I'm curious at what speeds people find they can hand hold a similar rangefinder camera and get good sharp 10x8 prints.

I fully understand the reciprocity of the lens length [75mm 1/75th] but many photographer use slower speeds hand held with good results.

I like movement if it is supposed to be evident but if it was not the intention I will probably never print the negative.

What techniques do you employ to maintain the camera portability and yet keep excellent sharp images at slower speeds?
 
1. Stand with feet 12" apart.
2. Brace the elbows against the rib cage.
3. Support the camera in the heel of the hand.
4. Take a deep breath and hold it for 5 seconds.
5. Exhale half-way and hold it.
6. Slowly squeeze the . . . no, wait
7. Look for a convenient horizontal surface to steady the camera on.
8. there isn't one? Repeat steps 1 through 5.
9. Frame picture and squeeze the shutter release without jiggling the camera.

I can do 1/15 with a 35mm lens. That's it.
 
Good results or excellent sharp images?

Excellent sharp images hand held with RF comes as with any camera. 1/250 and faster, with f8.
Good results I print on 8x10 are 1/50. For hand held RF.

1/15 f1.5. M3 DS ELC. 8x10 paper.



And this is 1/8 with M-E and 35mm lens:



Oh, tecniques. Stay still, hold camera to your face and don't breath.
 
Whatspeeds you can handhold depend on a lot of factors. Focal length of the lens, how heavy the camera is, and how steady you are. I used to be able to handhold a variety of cameras down to 1/15, nut after suffering a stroke in 2013, I am too shaky. The only way I can handhold now is to use a very high shutter speed, or if I use an Image Stabilization lens. The only camera I own that offers IS is my Canon 5DnkII. One of the lenses I have for it is an IS lens, the 24-105mm f4L-IS. Its the only lens I can handhold with it; I use a tripod with all my others.
 
Your Mamiya Six has a between the lens shutter which should help you a LOT.

I'd say it' pretty close to my Minolta IIIA and I was able to get down to 1/15 purely handheld. I could go lower if I had a chair/wall/tree I could lean against.

A trick I used for support is to use whatever you can with a small cloth between the camera and the support with a cable release. The less movement you transfer to the camera (e.g. pushing the shutter release button) the better off you are.

When you go down that low I find you subject's movement bring another variable into the equation too. I have a shot that I still remember from High School of Peggy shot around 1/15 where she was moving just a enough to slightly blur but you could still see her expression and the sparkle in her eyes. Sometimes razor sharpness isn't as important as others.

What are you looking to shoot with your new little friend? IMHO it's a VERY GOOD choice. If I go back to film it will be with either a Six or a Fuji GS645A. Please share some of your experiences/work on this new path you are taking.

B2 (;->
 
If split second timing is not critical using the self timer can help in some situations, especially if you have something with which to brace the camera. Even hand held it can still help a bit, because the motion involved in depressing the release can be avoided. As Bill mentioned above a camera with a lens shutter can help matters since they are usually very smooth indeed.
Cheers,
Brett
 
I once managed to hand-hold 1/4sec on a Pentax Spotmatic with a 24mm lens and get an acceptably sharp result on transparency film. However, I was a lot younger and I suspect a large dose of luck was involved. I have commonly used 1 stop slower than the lens reciprocal and got away with it but there are also times I didn't. With an RF I'd certainly attempt 2 stops slower but SLR or RF, I'd be looking for some support before resorting to hand-held that slow. Likewise, a long or heavy lens would make me use a support even above lens-reciprocal speeds.

The technique mentioned above by Rob_F works quite well but it's surprising what you can find for support if you bother to look around you. Lamp-posts, trees, walls etc, there's often something to use (assuming you didn't have a tripod). Even if you're confident of hand-holding, there's no downside to using a support that's available.
 
I have deliberately shot down to 1s hand held, but that was in a lecture hall where I rested the camera on the front rail. I will hand hold 1/4 if I have to, and got quite a sharp shot on digital without thinking what the shutter speed would be, shooting from the hip at what was 1/6s.

Using a half case helps give the camera bulk for keeping it still. I plaster the body of the camera against my cheekbone, or if vertical, against my forehead.

In a nightclub I attempted 1/2s at f2 on 35mm with my head anchored against the seat back, and asking my companions opposite to do the same. I like the shot, even though she laughed and so moved.

I haven't yet mastered 1/15s with the Rolleiflex, which is meant to be easier for this.

Beware of the reciprocal of the focal length, in both directions. If you want a sharp photo on digital use at least twice the focal length, and preferably 1/250s, for instance with a 90. Conversely, don't abandon the shot just because the shutter speed needs to be 1/30s with a 135mm lens: concentrate and use all the techniques above and you might be very pleased with the shot.

Movement of the subject is as much a problem as the camera. Bill Pierce in the Leica Manual of the 1970s had a great chapter on available light photography. With speakers and lecturers he advised to learn to pick the pick of the action, or the inevitable pause and take the shot then. That's how I got my shot at 1s.
 
I remember when I was a kid (13-14) I struggled to get a sharp photo at 1/125th. I tended to shake the camera.

Eventually, I realized I got better results at, say, 1/500th. I had only been using 1/125th because that was what my parents taught me to use. Years later, I realized why - I ran across the camera manual and all the example photos in it showed the camera at 1/125th. To my parents there could be no other speeds!
 
In situations where it is impractical (hiking) or impossible (musea or churches) to use a tripod or monopod I use a peculiar technique, the "inverted, flexible monopod".
Imagine; a plastic fishing line with a loophole on one side and an 1/4" tripod bolt on the other side.
Technique; screw the bolt in the tripod socket of your camera and put your foot in the loophole. then pull the camera up and shoot . . . .
By pulling the line tout, you stabilize the camera, permitting lower shutter speeds.
With my RX1 I can go as low as 1/15th or 1/8th with reasonable sharpness.
Costs almost nothing and might be worth trying. . . .
 
wolves3012 said:
I once managed to hand-hold 1/4sec on a Pentax Spotmatic with a 24mm lens and get an acceptably sharp result on transparency film. However, I was a lot younger and I suspect a large dose of luck was involved. I have commonly used 1 stop slower than the lens reciprocal and got away with it but there are also times I didn't. With an RF I'd certainly attempt 2 stops slower but SLR or RF, I'd be looking for some support before resorting to hand-held that slow. Likewise, a long or heavy lens would make me use a support even above lens-reciprocal speeds.

The technique mentioned above by Rob_F works quite well but it's surprising what you can find for support if you bother to look around you. Lamp-posts, trees, walls etc, there's often something to use (assuming you didn't have a tripod). Even if you're confident of hand-holding, there's no downside to using a support that's available.
Click to expand...

I got a good photo inside a temple at 1/2 sec and a 50mm lens at f/1.7. As you mentioned, I was younger and was leaning my back against a wall. I used to take some photos at 1 or 1/2 sec with a Welta Welti. I don't expect I had such a critical eye as I developed later.

RFs have always been considered better than SLRs, and your suggestion of looking around for support for your camera or yourself is excellent.
 
When I bought a Leica IIIf 50+ years ago I found I could hand hold it at significantly lower speeds than any of the other cameras I tried. Since then I've bought and sold at least 20 other cameras and none of them have worked out as well - for me. I am left eyed and an LTM Leica just fits the shape of my face better than any of the others. (SLRs were particularly bad.) At 20 I could reliably shoot at 1/10. At 73 the best I can do is 1/25 (with a 50mm lens). I carry the camera on a very short strap over my right shoulder so I have to really pull on the camera to get it up to my eye. I press it against my nose, my brow and my thumb on my left cheekbone. I breath slowly as described above and very slowly press the shutter release. The almost hair trigger shutter release of my LTM Leicas seems to help too.
 
I can hand hold a 35mm camera with a 50mm lens at 1/15 without thinking about it. However, I have been competitively target shooting for nearly 40 years and I just use the same techniques when taking photographs. Get a good, comfortable grip on the camera, focus, breathe out, hold your breath, squeeze the shutter gently.
 
MikeMGB said:
I can hand hold a 35mm camera with a 50mm lens at 1/15 without thinking about it. However, I have been competitively target shooting for nearly 40 years and I just use the same techniques when taking photographs. Get a good, comfortable grip on the camera, focus, breathe out, hold your breath, squeeze the shutter gently.
Click to expand...

Yup. That's exactly the same technique I use, and usually the pictures turn out fine. Sometimes I get really neat movement effects because everything is in focus except for something moving in the frame, like one of my kids, or a dog or a car or whatever.... Or if I track the moving subject then it is clear and focused, but the whole world is a whirl of color and movement around it. It's fun to experiment with. It's one thing that digital cameras with their increasingly fast sensors just can't do as well as film. I wish I had some examples of my work handy with these effects, but I'd have to dig....

OK, not my photo, but you get the point...

movement-blur-1.jpg


Scott
 
Michael I. said:
a good question is how sharp is sharp?
Click to expand...

This is the rub.

On a Leica M film with a 35mm lens I can get acceptably sharp down to 1/30, sometimes down to 1/8 where subject movement also limits the sharpness a lot. But to get sharp sharp, I'm going to stick above 1/125 or 1/(4 x focal length).

So how sharp is sharp?

My rule for as sharp as possible, 1/(2-4 x focal length) is my limit.
 
michaelwj said:
This is the rub.

On a Leica M film with a 35mm lens I can get acceptably sharp down to 1/30, sometimes down to 1/8 where subject movement also limits the sharpness a lot. But to get sharp sharp, I'm going to stick above 1/125 or 1/(4 x focal length).

So how sharp is sharp?

My rule for as sharp as possible, 1/(2-4 x focal length) is my limit.
Click to expand...

Eisenstaedt was taking a photo with a tripod. A passerby asked what shutter speed.
"One sixtieth."
"Gee, I can hand hold that no trouble."
"So can I. But I don't where this photo might end up - maybe 10 feet by 15 on the side of a truck."
 
Depends on camera. Reflex with/without mirror dampening are different.

My Pentaxes were terrible. 1/1000 usually worked. Best was Leica M2 at 1/2 leaning on waist high railing. I was totally shocked.

Medium format has a bigger flopping mirror.

Nikon digital can use 1/4 sec delay when everything settles down. use 2x reciprocal of shutter speed.

Leica M reciprocal of shutter speed M8/9 double shutter speed. they are shaky in my opinion.

Heavier cameras better than lightweights. Nikon D3 is really good.

tripod is always better unless you use a cheepo wiggly job. Then you are better off without.

So my advice is to test and use the stance suggestions above. I wrap the strap around my back and keep slight tension on it.
 
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