Hand made vs manufactured

KoNickon said:
If the quality of design, materials and assembly is high, then the extent to which something is "handmade" or "manufactured" (however these terms are defined) doesn't really matter much, in my book. Some may take pleasure from the fact something was made by a particular person; others may simply appreciate that the item works well, and reliably, however it was made. . . .
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Dear Nick,

Or indeed MEAN much.

My suspicion is that "hand made" is often no more than a place-holder for "more expensive", simply because manual labour costs more than machine labour. And EVERYONE knows that "more expensive" is always exactly the same as "better". Unless they have a brain, of course.

Sometimes, though, "hand made" is essential because it would cost too much to set up the machinery to make something for which demand is modest: think of wooden cameras. Or indeed (insofar as they are hand made -- I've seen the production line) Leicas. Or Morgan cars.

At the extreme, I've had stuff made to my own design because there was nothing on the market that would do exactly what I wanted. For example, I'm still using a satchel made to my specifications by a Polish cordwainer in Glasgow 40+ years ago, though I've had to re-stitch it twice. It's like a school satchel, but with a strap that goes all the way around; a main compartment that takes A4 files; and a front pocket divided to take two Leicas. I had only one at the time (a 1936 IIIa that cost me £30), but I had ambitions... Oh, and it's black leather and chrome instead of brown leather and brass: this was 1970-71, after all. I think it cost me £20 so it was good value for money. And my Swiss Army knife lives in a belt-holster with a military-style fastener, which I had made for it maybe 15 years ago.

In a completely different realm, I've had a stove built for smoking food, though I haven't tried it yet: I need the connecting pipes to the barrel I'll be using as a smoker. The same guy is building me a wood-burning sauna stove, but that'll mean I have to build the sauna I've been fantasizing about for half a decade. Both stoves are to my design with a LOT of input from the builder. And 30 years ago I had some wooden cameras built to my design in Delhi. Having stuff made to your own design, or making it yourself, is where "hand made" can really come in useful.

Three or four years ago, on the other hand, I had a pair of boots made to measure (his standard design, no design input from me) and frankly I've had MANY better boots that did not claim to be so "artisanal": a 360€ mistake I won't make again. Even so, well-made boots probably do have a lot of hand work in them: proportionately, I'd guess as much as a Leica.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Nick,

Or indeed MEAN much.

My suspicion is that "hand made" is often no more than a place-holder for "more expensive", simply because manual labour costs more than machine labour. And EVERYONE knows that "more expensive" is always exactly the same as "better". Unless they have a brain, of course.

Sometimes, though, "hand made" is essential because it would cost too much to set up the machinery to make something for which demand is modest: think of wooden cameras. Or indeed (insofar as they are hand made -- I've seen the production line) Leicas. Or Morgan cars.

At the extreme, I've had stuff made to my own design because there was nothing on the market that would do exactly what I wanted. For example, I'm still using a satchel made to my specifications by a Polish cordwainer in Glasgow 40+ years ago, though I've had to re-stitch it twice. It's like a school satchel, but with a strap that goes all the way around; a main compartment that takes A4 files; and a front pocket divided to take two Leicas. I had only one at the time (a 1936 IIIa that cost me £30), but I had ambitions... Oh, and it's black leather and chrome instead of brown leather and brass: this was 1970-71, after all. I think it cost me £20 so it was good value for money. And my Swiss Army knife lives in a belt-holster with a military-style fastener, which I had made for it maybe 15 years ago.

In a completely different realm, I've had a stove built for smoking food, though I haven't tried it yet: I need the connecting pipes to the barrel I'll be using as a smoker. The same guy is building me a wood-burning sauna stove, but that'll mean I have to build the sauna I've been fantasizing about for half a decade. Both stoves are to my design with a LOT of input from the builder. And 30 years ago I had some wooden cameras built to my design in Delhi. Having stuff made to your own design, or making it yourself, is where "hand made" can really come in useful.

Three or four years ago, on the other hand, I had a pair of boots made to measure (his standard design, no design input from me) and frankly I've had MANY better boots that did not claim to be so "artisanal": a 360€ mistake I won't make again. Even so, well-made boots probably do have a lot of hand work in them: proportionately, I'd guess as much as a Leica.

Cheers,

R.
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My mum bought me a pair of made to measure elite commando oxford boots from Grensons ... I'm not that bothered who or what made them, they still fit and are very comfortable, if lacking a bit of polish at the moment
 
FrankS said:
....
Consider also a house. It keeps its occupants warm/cool, dry, and secure. It could be a prefab house, a cookie cutter subdivision house, or a largely hand crafted timber frame house. Is there a difference in inherent (non-commercial) value?

What do you think?
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All three are hand made. And not melted by pressure from the plastic as one hollow unit by machine on factory.

I was inside of all three types.
Was helping to build pre-hub, have seen and documented construction of custom made home and was living inside of log houses (they are the best in terms of living quality).

Worst are soviet style multi-storey buildings they are dumping on Toronto land. Destrois communities and anti-family. One, two kinds maximum and nobody knows anyone anymore even at the same floor...


It also really depends where house is and how good it is structurally.
I don't mind new prehab right at Toronto lakeshore at all for the price of suburban old molded cookie cutter. :cool:



I have seen knifes hand made from jet engine rotor blades.
They cut metal nails.

Again it really depends on materials and craftsmanship.
If it is crappy work I take something mass produced under standards and quality control.
 
FrankS said:
For some people, it doesn't matter how an object is made. They only consider its function... Take a knife for instance. If its cuts well, that's all that is important to some.

For others, how an object is made is also important. Given that it also cuts well, some people would place greater value on a hand made/forged knife.

Why is that? Is it mere artifice? Is it fetishism? There can be more than one reason, and different people will have different reasons. Are there any defendable reasons with merit?

...What do you think?
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Speaking as a knife collector, this knife ( http://www.amazon.com/Glock-KO17378...91131785&sr=8-8&keywords=glock+81+field+knife ) is certainly functional as well as economical. However, this knife
( http://www.turleyknives.com/apps/blog/show/5370539-model-4-green-river-woodsman-s-knife ) is more enjoyable to use.

Maybe it all comes down to a quality of life thing...
 
I make a lot of things by hand but not totally hand made for I use machines. I am a machinist for many years and just love making things in any kind of material.
I have made camera parts that could not be found.
Some things that are hand made are made because no one else makes what you want.
As for knives I started making my own for the challenge of learning how to do it and also to fill I need I had.
Making things is also a great way of being instantly humbled and gratified.
Then there is the satisfaction of carrying and using something that you made yourself.
 
Well I like mechanical things, cameras included. That places the cameras I like in past decades where there was more 'hand assembly' but I don't think hand assembly qualifies as "hand made".

I would think the closest thing to a hand made camera is some of the hand built 4X5 and larger formats that a home craftsman would make. Some of these folks have the tooling for both metal work and woodwork and make truly beautiful instruments. These are one off items made for presonal use I'm talking about.

Of course not all home made cameras are of such quality. I have made several 4X5 cameras of hobby ply, glue, cardboard and spit. None would be considered a thing of beauty.
 
Exclusivity. Do you want something that everybody else has?

FrankS said:
For some people, it doesn't matter how an object is made. They only consider its function. Take a knife for instance. If its cuts well, that's all that is important to some.

For others, how an object is made is also important. Given that it also cuts well, some people would place greater value on a hand made/forged knife.

Why is that? Is it mere artifice? Is it fetishism? There can be more than one reason, and different people will have different reasons. Are there any defendable reasons with merit?

Consider also a house. It keeps its occupants warm/cool, dry, and secure. It could be a prefab house, a cookie cutter subdivision house, or a largely hand crafted timber frame house. Is there a difference in inherent (non-commercial) value?

What do you think?
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Interesting that this discussion should come up -- I just picked up this table from an estate sale a couple of weeks ago. About 1840-1860, English 'coaching' table (just look at the top - one solid piece of mahogany). I'm sure it was 'manufactured' by some type of a furniture company or guild of craftsmen, and the quality of the piece still shines through 170+ years later. Obviously no computers involved, but maybe something like this might be considered a combination of the 'handmade' and the 'manufactured'?


Coaching1 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


Coaching5 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


Coaching17 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


Coaching14 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr


Coaching24 by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr
 
Vince that is a lovely table. I thought all handmade things were manufactured? The tools and the raw materials aren't what makes an object 'handmade' just that it is fashioned by human hand IMO.
 
... coaching, what's wrong with the good old pack-horse! there was some skill in that, not like these new-fangaled coach roads ... and don't get me started on those bloody canals
 
Photo_Smith said:
Vince that is a lovely table. I thought all handmade things were manufactured? The tools and the raw materials aren't what makes an object 'handmade' just that it is fashioned by human hand IMO.
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Oh yes you're quite right - guess I was meaning that these tables, for example, we're likely made in some quantities, rather than something that's necessarily one-of-a-kind. And some parts of that table, like the spindles, likely required some type of machinery, like a lathe?
 
Pretty sloppy, Vince. If it were well made the screw heads would line up...

Seriously, of course you're right. The screws were almost certainly machine made; I'd be astonished if band-saws hadn't been used at some point; the spindles between the legs are clearly turned. As I suggested early in the thread, "machine made" to "hand made" is a continuum.

Something that's just occurred to me, though, is that there is often a BIG difference between something that is designed to be fabricated and/or assembled by hand, and quite possibly repaired by hand, and something that is designed to be fabricated and/or assembled by machine, and to hell with reparability.

Cheers,

R.
 
1830's? The spindles were likely turned using a treadle powered lathe. The bandsaw was patented in 1809 but didn't become practical until the late 1840's when the improved welding of the blades and steel came along.
 
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