PhotoGog
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I have a beautiful Canon F-1 that, despite a combined 40 years of use by me and my father, is in tip top shape. Never jammed or stiffened or failed in any way. Superb.
But ... I'd like to keep it that way and have heard that CLAs (at least a good one by a good technician) can be preventative and prolong the life of the mechanical components. Like servicing a car, in theory.
Alternatively, I have heard that opening and fiddling around with a body unnecessarily is always risky and there really is no need unless one is experiencing problems.
What's the consensus: CLAs are good as preventative measure, or risky interventions that do more harm than good?
But ... I'd like to keep it that way and have heard that CLAs (at least a good one by a good technician) can be preventative and prolong the life of the mechanical components. Like servicing a car, in theory.
Alternatively, I have heard that opening and fiddling around with a body unnecessarily is always risky and there really is no need unless one is experiencing problems.
What's the consensus: CLAs are good as preventative measure, or risky interventions that do more harm than good?
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
see here, e.g.:
http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114964&highlight=CLA
In other words: I agree with Roger.
Ummm, some on this forum call me a «brown nose» because that happens quite often, I've learned?
I couldn't care less. Roger Hicks is very very very rarely wrong.
roscoetuff
Well-known
FWIW, Henry Scherer does first class work. I'm not a Contax camera fan, so can't speak to that. However, when I was looking for a technician to refurb one of my Zeiss Contax CY mount lenses, I contacted Zeiss directly and they referred me to Henry. I have refurbished a number of these lenses through him, and been very pleased. The lenses come back in first class shape and perform "like new", and as good on a Sony A7RII as any new Loxia lens. My experience confirms (small size sample and prone to cautious generalization) my suspicion that those who compare new digital lenses to old glass and find in favor solely of the new are simply comparing fresh with old and tired. Make the comparison fair by "refreshing" the old, and the old gives the new more than a run for it's much less money. I have run both the Loxia and Contax CY lenses side by side and the old performs fabulously. The new Loxia's are good and I like them, but Henry sure knows his business, and I'd recommend him highly. Does he love is Contax cameras and grind his teeth over the posers who ruin them? Sure. And maybe(?) that comes out in the article? Not a surprise. But despite the naysayers, Henry really does know his business. Searching through the Roger Hicks piece, he seems to echo much of Henry Scherer's comments.
When I began 2017 by following Zeiss ZM lenses towards a Leica, I asked Henry about ZM glass. He doesn't work on them and knows nothing of Leica or Leica service folks that he'll pass along. Commenters on the text from his website are errant in conveying that he's speaking about Leica and the folks we know who work on them. He's talking about the ebay posers who cobble cameras that look good enough for a photo but could never work. The full text makes that rather clear.
FWIW, I've recently been looking into getting a Nikon F2 to run my now refurbished Contax CY mount lenses with an adapter as a film option to free me from dependence on the Sony A7RII for certain functions. If you look at an option like this, you'll begin to wonder about CLA for an old Nikon, and a quick search turned up these guys:
http://abilenecamera.com/
Looks like a real operation, too, and for a wider range of cameras. Their prices look a little lean to me compared to Youxin and Scherer, so I would want to get more information, but it's a place to start. FWIW, I have a "new to me" Leica M4-2 on it's way back to me from Youxin Ye, and have high confidence that having a camera checked out - if it's value warrants - will prove worth the money. Plenty of cameras won't merit the effort. Those are simpler to just buy another off ebay.
THere's not rock certainty that old tech won't have a fit some time. Even with a CLA / refurbish, something can still give out... the same way it does with your car: "because it's time". But if you're careful and prudent in whom you work with, seems like a good idea to me. But a good service provider is worth his fee. Pay him and don't argue. If you're going to resent it, or try to do it on the cheap, then don't do it at all and stick with new equipment.
When I began 2017 by following Zeiss ZM lenses towards a Leica, I asked Henry about ZM glass. He doesn't work on them and knows nothing of Leica or Leica service folks that he'll pass along. Commenters on the text from his website are errant in conveying that he's speaking about Leica and the folks we know who work on them. He's talking about the ebay posers who cobble cameras that look good enough for a photo but could never work. The full text makes that rather clear.
FWIW, I've recently been looking into getting a Nikon F2 to run my now refurbished Contax CY mount lenses with an adapter as a film option to free me from dependence on the Sony A7RII for certain functions. If you look at an option like this, you'll begin to wonder about CLA for an old Nikon, and a quick search turned up these guys:
http://abilenecamera.com/
Looks like a real operation, too, and for a wider range of cameras. Their prices look a little lean to me compared to Youxin and Scherer, so I would want to get more information, but it's a place to start. FWIW, I have a "new to me" Leica M4-2 on it's way back to me from Youxin Ye, and have high confidence that having a camera checked out - if it's value warrants - will prove worth the money. Plenty of cameras won't merit the effort. Those are simpler to just buy another off ebay.
THere's not rock certainty that old tech won't have a fit some time. Even with a CLA / refurbish, something can still give out... the same way it does with your car: "because it's time". But if you're careful and prudent in whom you work with, seems like a good idea to me. But a good service provider is worth his fee. Pay him and don't argue. If you're going to resent it, or try to do it on the cheap, then don't do it at all and stick with new equipment.
CLA's by good techs do no harm.
CLA's by beginning wannabe techs are almost disastrous.
Robert Lai
Well-known
In the USA, the go-to Canon technician is Ken Oikawa in California.
He worked at the Canon factory before, making these cameras. Now he services them.
PM me, and I will give you his phone number.
You need to call and start leaving a message. His wife will usually pick up. Be patient - they are in their 80s, and the English is heavily accented in Japanese.
However, his workmanship is first class, and he works quickly. Price is also very reasonable.
As far as the whole CLA or not debate, here's my view:
To continue to use a precision machine with dried up lube and dirt accumulated over the decades will invite accelerated wear and eventually a catastrophic failure.
Don't believe me, then run your car without ever changing the oil for 30 years and see what happens.
A shoddily done "CLA" is worse than not having done one in the first place.
A proper CLA is actually an overhaul, because it involves dismantling, cleaning, relubricating and reassembling.
I've had too many "mint" looking cameras (Leica, Nikon, Canon, etc) which had deteriorated seals, internal corrosion, and fungal growths when disassembled. You'll never know until you take it apart.
He worked at the Canon factory before, making these cameras. Now he services them.
PM me, and I will give you his phone number.
You need to call and start leaving a message. His wife will usually pick up. Be patient - they are in their 80s, and the English is heavily accented in Japanese.
However, his workmanship is first class, and he works quickly. Price is also very reasonable.
As far as the whole CLA or not debate, here's my view:
To continue to use a precision machine with dried up lube and dirt accumulated over the decades will invite accelerated wear and eventually a catastrophic failure.
Don't believe me, then run your car without ever changing the oil for 30 years and see what happens.
A shoddily done "CLA" is worse than not having done one in the first place.
A proper CLA is actually an overhaul, because it involves dismantling, cleaning, relubricating and reassembling.
I've had too many "mint" looking cameras (Leica, Nikon, Canon, etc) which had deteriorated seals, internal corrosion, and fungal growths when disassembled. You'll never know until you take it apart.
Mackinaw
Think Different
Several years back I picked up a relatively early production F-1 that was in real good shape. I decided it needed a CLA, mainly because they camera was 40 years old and I figured a once-over by a qualified each would keep it going for another 40 years. I used Ken Oikawa in California, who is a retired Canon repair tech specializing in FL and FD Canon gear. Depending on how much you want to spend, he can do a total strip-down, taking the camera apart and reassembling, or a more basic CLA. I opted for the CLA. No regrets.
Jim B.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
I'm gonna "third" the motion of sending it to Ken Oikawa in California. He's the best technician still doing those Canon FD cameras.
As far as the wisdom of getting a CLA done on the old Canon F-1. Back in 1993 my F-1 was getting a bit long in the tooth and I had the tech at Ken Hansen in New York give it a full CLA. Came back working like the day it was born. And if I hadn't been so stupid as to have sold it, I'm sure it would be working fine today. If you can afford a CLA, and you send it to a tech like Ken Oikawa in California, I think you'll be very happy.
Best,
-Tim
As far as the wisdom of getting a CLA done on the old Canon F-1. Back in 1993 my F-1 was getting a bit long in the tooth and I had the tech at Ken Hansen in New York give it a full CLA. Came back working like the day it was born. And if I hadn't been so stupid as to have sold it, I'm sure it would be working fine today. If you can afford a CLA, and you send it to a tech like Ken Oikawa in California, I think you'll be very happy.
Best,
-Tim
PhotoGog
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Thanks for the advice guys. Unfortunately, living in Sydney, shipping to the US is not feasible in a cost benefit analysis. My takeaway from the advice is if it ain't broke don't fix it!
Alberti
Well-known
Well, I had mine CLA'd a few years back.
One important renewal was the replacement of the light sealing both on the back door mechanism, and around the mirror.
This materal tends to deteriorate (crumble and get sticky) after some 25 -30 years; when hot maybe faster.
A few years back I found DIY gasket sets that you might apply yourself.
One important renewal was the replacement of the light sealing both on the back door mechanism, and around the mirror.
This materal tends to deteriorate (crumble and get sticky) after some 25 -30 years; when hot maybe faster.
A few years back I found DIY gasket sets that you might apply yourself.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
The Canon F1 is a fantastic pro level top shelf camera that is built like a tank.
If you do choose to give it a CLA, pick the best camera tech with experience on that model and go for it.
A camera of that quality is not worth scrimping on, it will last you several lifetimes of use when it is running in optimum condition.
If you do choose to give it a CLA, pick the best camera tech with experience on that model and go for it.
A camera of that quality is not worth scrimping on, it will last you several lifetimes of use when it is running in optimum condition.
wjlapier
Well-known
Light seals on the F1 are easily done. I've done it. There is the issue of the battery and the meter, which is where Ken Oikawa comes it. He did a CLA of a F1 for me and adjusted the meter to use modern batteries. I too stupidly sold the F1. I recently purchased a FTb which needed some attention. I opted not to do the light seals this time around. Meter wasn't working but Ken fixed it. He replaced the light seals and cleaned the mirror chamber. And I can use modern batteries. These older Canon cameras are awesome.