Has Leica alienated photographers?

[Pioneer]

But it is returning to that original Leica ideal. Simple, small, quick, quiet, point and shoot. Anticipate the shot. 8mp file size is good enough. Just build it tough so it holds up and make it repairable.

 

[Emile de Leon]

I wish they would make a rangefinder just like my m6..weight and size wise that is..but with fully articulated screen and full vid capabilities..I may end up getting the m240 eventually..maybe..

 

[photomoof]

I'm talking used. Sorry for the confusion.

But let's not forget; just before the M8 came out Leica wasin big trouble. They were offering huge discounts on lenses. Bankruptcy was latent, present.

Kauffman's strategy was a price hike to support an extremely uncertain digital adventure. Back then, a Full Frame M was impossible to make. The official story from Leica was that a FF M leica would simply never exist. The director was fired shortly thereafter.

Source please. There was never any statement from Leica to that effect.
Mr. Lee was fired because of his perpetual upgrade program ideas and for clashing with the corporate culture.

Perhaps you are being too literal? There were many statements from Leica, to the effect that even the M8 was impossible. However as you note - Leica never said "never."

Start here for sources: http://www.nemeng.com/leica/004fa.shtml​

Lee was fired, for reasons which have never really gone public. But the reason atributed by Ned comes from here: http://www.wired.com/2009/03/leica-wants-to/

Last year the former Leica CEO Steven Lee suggested that the company would be making a full frame M8. Leica fired him.

 

[Roger Hicks]

If "doing quite well at the moment" is the only requirement for determining a companies customer satisfaction and therefor viability, then you are correct. If not, then a "yes" answer needs little restriction to obtain.

Dear John,

OK. Enter the restrictions you'd like. Including what sort of buyers you think should be allowed to buy cameras.

Cheers,

R.

 

[giganova]

I do black and white … Development: $10 a roll development

Develop them at home and it will cost you $1.8 per film.

 

[johannielscom]

"Has Leica alienated photographers"

As the company appears to be doing quite well at the moment, the only easy way to get a "yes" answer is to restrict "photographers" to "people of whom I approve".

Cheers,

R.

That's a bit too quick IMHO. Restricting it to 'people who own a (substantial part of their) income through photography' would also mean a 'yes' answer to the question and that's what I meant.

 

[SuperUJ]

Develop them at home and it will cost you $1.8 per film.

Living in New York City, I tried, from bath tub to darkroom rental for years. I still need to print. Adding my time together to develop and print, I found it not worth it any more. Between outsourcing the film development, or digital workflow, I went with the latter. It's a more viable solution for me in the City.

John

 

[mlu19]

All I have to say is that I'm glad I'm not into cars, watches, golf, or Air Jordans. Leica, film or digital, as a hobby, is not extremely expensive comparatively.

Has Leica alienated photographers? Leica might have alienated the professionals. But then again, I'm not sure if rangerfinders would even appeal to the professionals nowadays.

 

[Corran]

First, please define what a photographer is, in reference to your statement.

If that means anyone who takes pictures, well, 95% of "photographers" have never even heard of Leica.

If that means professionals who earn their income with photography in a commercial setting, then 95% of them use tools that are quicker, easier, and give as high or higher quality images for less money. That's just business.

I'll ignore the category of "artists" as that's a different kettle of fish.

It's no wonder they go for the luxury goods / passionate photo enthusiast market.

I own and use an M9 and while it's my favorite digital camera, my Nikon FF DSLRs totally thrash it in every meaningful comparison except size/weight. I enjoy it for what it is. But I'm not 100% commercial so I can afford to splurge on my passion for RFs. Otherwise, I certainly wouldn't own it.

 

[David Hughes]

... A film Leica is a "once in a lifetime" camera, and therefore considering its lifespan a very cheap camera with excellent price-performance ratio.

Cheers, Jan

Hi,

I hate to disagree because I agree with the rest of this post but dare I mention (again) the Minilux 02 Error? I now use a mini 3 for my carry everywhere camera but not as often as I should or would like as I fear it will go the way of the Minilux...

Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

I do black and white and now use M246. Below is my math to justified it ... had I stick to 35mm films, it will cost me:

Development: $10 a roll development x 10 rolls a month x 12 months x 5 years (planned) = $6,000
And I can double this price for contact sheets and test sheet printing.

My current iMac handles the files nicely. I have the following new computer related expense:
New external hard drive for file backup: $100
Lightroom on Creative Cloud: $10 a month x 12 months a year.

So, has Leica alienated photographers? Not me!

John

Hi,

Where and how do you get the free printers (they don't last long) and the free paper and the free ink cartridges?

Regards, David

 

[Timmyjoe]

I see value in the Leica M rangefinder design for certain shooting situations. And I am a huge fan of the way a good CCD renders a color image. So for me, I had to cough up the money for a Leica digital full frame camera (in my case an M-E), I bought a new one because I wanted a warranty to fall back on. It was more expensive than I would have liked, but in reality it was about 3/4 the price of the Nikon D4 I use for work.

Prior to the M-E, the last new Leica equipment I bought was in 2000, a brand new M6-TTL and 50 Lux, which coincidentally the package came out to be the same price as the M-E. All my other Leica gear was bought used. I have a Leica shooting package now that I hope to keep for as long as I'm making images. It fits very nicely with the personal projects I love, projects over a longer term where I immerse myself with the subjects.

I just finished a four year project, shot entirely with Leica M rangefinders, that was published on the iBooks Bookstore this week. I believe the project would not have come out the same had I used an SLR camera system, as I believe the Leica became almost invisible between myself and my subjects.

Best,
-Tim

 

[SuperUJ]

Hi,

Where and how do you get the free printers (they don't last long) and the free paper and the free ink cartridges?

Regards, David

I don't own a photo printer. For proofing, I now do it on screen. With a monitor, I don't need test prints any more. The final prints were not in my equation for comparison between the two workflows.

John

 

[Roger Hicks]

That's a bit too quick IMHO. Restricting it to 'people who own a (substantial part of their) income through photography' would also mean a 'yes' answer to the question and that's what I meant.

Really? I know quite a few professionals who own at least one Leica. Also, who says a "photographer" has to earn a living with a particular camera? Or that it must only be with one camera? I've earned more over the years with my Leicas than my Linhofs. Does this mean I have been "alienated" by Linhofs?

Sure, frame the question (and definition) to suit your own prejudices and it's easy to get whatever answer you like. Which was my point, really. Of course, there are those who would say that there are no "photographers" in Arles -- which makes the number of Leicas there a bit odd, really.

Cheers,

R.

 

[danielsterno]

i agree with Helen: As for Moi, I'm still content with a Leica M Film Body, as for digital still looking…..

outside of the M5/M6 though for me the x100 for digital is doing it for me and hoping the XProII was worth waiting for…….D.

 

[vladimir]

I don`t think Leica has alienated people.
Still selling plenty of cameras and compared to the cost of other pastimes the cost of a Leica is very reasonable.

Yes ,you can buy cheaper cameras ... so buy them and stop worrying about the price of Leica.

+1! it is all relative is it not.

 

[Ned Bojic]

Perhaps you are being too literal? There were many statements from Leica, to the effect that even the M8 was impossible. However as you note - Leica never said "never."

Start here for sources: http://www.nemeng.com/leica/004fa.shtml​

Lee was fired, for reasons which have never really gone public. But the reason atributed by Ned comes from here: http://www.wired.com/2009/03/leica-wants-to/

I was very active and passionate about it all back then, so I'm very accurate in what I am saying. There's no need to moderate what I am saying. No, Really. The reasons I have attributed do not come from your wired link. This is a bit insulting.

Lee was fired for public BS such as the impossibility of a FF sensor, the infinite sensor upgrade program that was about to be launched, the free iR cut filters and obviously not running the company properly.

It is only when the M9 arrived that Leica got up. The M8 wasn't the kick it was supposed to be. Again, because of the bs.

 

[johannielscom]

Really? I know quite a few professionals who own at least one Leica. Also, who says a "photographer" has to earn a living with a particular camera? Or that it must only be with one camera? I've earned more over the years with my Leicas than my Linhofs. Does this mean I have been "alienated" by Linhofs?

Sure, frame the question (and definition) to suit your own prejudices and it's easy to get whatever answer you like. Which was my point, really. Of course, there are those who would say that there are no "photographers" in Arles -- which makes the number of Leicas there a bit odd, really.

Cheers,

R.

I don't have any prejudices on Leica (anymore), Roger. I liked the film M's, until I found out my photography improved by refraining from them. I simply ran into this thread posing the question and I answered it. Yes Leica has alienated me and yes it was due to the price they charge for their digital gear, a price I cannot pay and would not pay considering the quality it gets me. And yes I think I'm not alone. And yes I'm right on all counts and yes your opinions may vary and yes that's okay.

I don't know if you feel alienated by Linhof, do you? Wanna start a thread on it and see what others feel? Your prerogative!

Let's not try to reason a simple opinion into extremes to prove its right or wrong, it's really not worth it. No need to declare absolute truths here, IMHO.

 

[photomoof]

I was very active and passionate about it all back then, so I'm very accurate in what I am saying. There's no need to moderate what I am saying. No, Really. The reasons I have attributed do not come from your wired link. This is a bit insulting.

Lee was fired for public BS such as the impossibility of a FF sensor, the infinite sensor upgrade program that was about to be launched, the free iR cut filters and obviously not running the company properly.

Why insulting? Wired just agreed with what everyone was saying, they were not in the least an original source.

We all got our information, and mis-information, from the press and interviews which to this day, seem self-serving on both sides. No way to know where the truth lies, and to top it off Lee never went to court.

This 2008 Wall Street Journal article has always seemed the most balanced to me. But it too, is not nuanced. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122152103387739231?mg=id-wsj

Why Lee was there at all, is the same question Steve Jobs must have wondered about John Scully.

 

[literiter]

Leica appeals to everybody, but mostly to those who can afford them.