Has Leica alienated photographers?

Has Leica alienated photographers?

  • Yes, I feel alienated by Leica's High Prices

    Votes: 170 38.1%

  • Maybe, sometimes yes, sometimes no

    Votes: 86 19.3%

  • No, I want Leica quality and that means Leica prices

    Votes: 122 27.4%

  • YES, I am alienated by Leica targeting bling marketing (late poll addition)

    Votes: 68 15.2%
  • Total voters
    446
photomoof said:
1967 was the height of the "gas wars" in the US, I bought gas as low as 19 cents that year in the midwest, but the published averages were under 50 cents until the Arab Oil Embargo raised prices to 55 cents. Oil was about $12 a barrel.

At today's price of about $2.30 per gallon it is currently a bargain, it really should be about 2.50
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I thought the Arab Oil Embargo was in 1974-1976.

The current low price of oil is due to the oil producers/vendors manipulating the market to keep industry hooked on using their products. They're scared ****less that solar and other power sources will obviate their existence, something that I cannot be more delighted by.

As a global civilization we need power, but we need to obtain it without the toxicity and detrimental effects of oil. Keeping the price of oil artificially low has constrained research money for the development of alternative power sources for decades.

G
 
I've had two Leicas, the last one for 52 years. But I have to agree with the OP, I see something similar that happened in the US about 10-15 years ago. Then every upwardly mobile male bought a Harley-Davidson Motorcycle. I think that is the market now for Leica.

Recently, I had my IIIf at a car show and a guy with a digital Leica asked, 'What kind of camera is that?' My camera even had a Leica lens cap????????????????
 
Hello,

I owned an M4-P, M2 and IIIc.. Great cameras, and pretty cheap used.. Even had a Summilux 35mm Pre-Asph, which I stupidly sold. Nothing beats a film Leica IMHO. I will get another M2 as soon as I will be in a position to easily develop film again.

The digital models, no way. The prices are way too high compared to the competition. There is the problem of long term reliability as well. You can almost always fix a film Leica. Parts availability for digital models is a problem. Is your camera sensor going to be available in ten years? Would the camera last that long anyway?
There are a numbers of cameras on the market today that are as good or better than a Leica, and you can even use Leica lenses on some with an adapter. Sure, you won't get the rangefinder, so what? EVFs are so good now, it hardly matters. Yes, I would prefer a Leica, but at four times the price? No. As to the new non-rangefinder Leicas, I'd rather get a Panasonic, thank you. The former are no more than overpriced consumer models.

Alienated? By the digital models, yes. Maybe in the sense that I would probably not (never say never) buy a new digital Leica. A used film M though, hell yes!

When is someone going to invent a thin 35mm sensor and data storage system that fits in a film cartridge?

Gil.
 
Well, I have owned Leica since 1975 (every film M up to the MP) and purchased a used M9 two years ago(for $4500). I am not a professional so I am not constrained by deadlines but six months after the M9 the sensor issue reared its ugly head. Now Leica stepped up as it should have but let's face it, Leica is now jewelry ($3200 for film cameras that would be state of the art in 1960). The new SL looks a hell of a lot like a Sony!

And Leica makes some fine glass but is it worth the price? Objectively, I have to say no with the fine offerings from Zeiss and Cosina. I think the 35f2.8 C-Biogon may have the title as sharpest 35 made and 35f1.2 Nokton is certainly the fastest.

I own two 1958 M2's as well as Leitz bino's and will probably get another M film body. Will I ever spend the money on a new digital (probably not). Presently, I am on a RTW trip with the M9 wishing I had brought my M2's.

Can't say that when one buys a Leica product, one does not know what one is buying. Nor will I fault their marketing strategy as it appears to be working. But as a tool for a professional photographer, there are many other more capable products. Two of my friends shoot for NATGEO and Leicas are not in their gear package but a drone is.
 
I bought my first Leica (M240 silver) used for a bit over the cost of a new Sony FF. I also bought some nice used Leica lenses one at the time. Yes, the Leica stuff costs probably twice of what a DSLR and lenses will cost, But still it's not the end of the world...

I think it's a matter of priorities. No point in complaining about the Leica stuff being to expensive. One could ask, too expensive compared to what? Sure, you can buy a cheap camera and get decent images, but if you really want a Leica (for whatever reason), you can buy a used M240 and 4 excellent coded lenses for the price of a crappy used car which will lose most of it's value within a couple of years.

Some people go out to eat and drink often and spend enough to buy the Leica in a couple of years. Some pay enough in monthly rent to buy one or two Leica bodies.... Sure, not everyone can afford a Leica even at used bargain prices, but they probably can't afford the rent of a studio in Manhattan or a new Lexus. Funny thing is that I don't read people raging against the studio, the Lexus or the price of booze.

I totally enjoy owning and using my Leica stuff. So far there has been no problems with it and it's a lot better and more enjoyable to use than the other cameras I've had and some I still have. All I say is that if you don't like the price of something, simply don't buy it. It's rather pointless to whine and complain about it. I can't afford to own a Bugatti Veyron, but I'm not wasting my time complaining about the Veyron prices.
 
Leica is a pro level camera or is supposed to be. I question it often.

Nikon pro cameras are very good. I am falling in love again with my D3 & 700. 800 series for high MP. 750 for low light. None have ever been in for service.

Every Leica I owned needed service except my M9 which has 400 clicks. It did come with a battery that did not make contact in the new charger, but did work in my M8 charger. Do I count that as service.

Photography is about light and composition. That is more important than the brand of box you use.
 
To me, 'alienated' woud imply that Leica had a user base, and then alienated that user base by pushing prices out of their reach. Whereas my take on Leica is that they've always been expensive, and have a user base to match.

I do think that Leica prices mean that brand simply isn't relevant to the vast majority of photographers, in the same way that Ferraris aren't relevant to most drivers.
 
I think yes they have when I look at the last products they have issued.
I'm still very happy to shoot with the M8.2 and Leica glass that I bought second hand.
 
I left the Leica party when they were late transitioning to digital. When I tried to return after a few years I couldn't afford the price of admission.
 
I went to Photoexpo, and saw their new SL mirrorless camera and I asked
the price and when they said 7 grand I said really and I'll just stick with
my M8. If I didn't get a great deal on it I would not have one.
 
Michael Markey said:
A horse doesn`t last a lifetime and indeed can keel over in an instant yet I never hear the complaints about cost that I hear expressed in these threads.
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I've been around all sorts of barns, my whole life, on and off, and deep concern over cost was never absent. Expressing that concern to non-family, that is another matter. It is such a burden with horses, nobody wants to hear any whining because it reminds you of your own issues. It's just low-class to complain about it, and everybody knows this. "Can't afford it? You should not have a horse." The caveat, of course, are those with such means that the expenses do not mean sacrifice. They really have no concern for the rest as wealth destroys empathy in general. Except of course, for pets. :)

I think most photographers with any sense of history are damn glad Leica is still around. The volume of howling about the terrible Leica decisions then and now, only shows people care. Somehow Leica has managed to matter, even to enemies.

We should have a thread: List every Leica mistake! :) the very fact we know so many, and they continue to make epic ones, and we continue to love their cameras and lenses, shows the stature of Leica. They are the founders 35mm photography. Their prices created Canikon. Most of the great shooters of the 20th century shot Leica at one time or the other. Oskar Barnack and Walter Mandler. Tell me more famous designers of cameras and lenses? Look at the modern M lens set. Incredible. Who else will give you a digital rangefinder? OK, RD-1, but they gave up quick, like a footnote. Sad, because the market is prime for a FF RD-X.

And right now, this moment, I would not trade my M9 for any other option. That includes 240 LOL. Of course it doesn't do everything, the A7.mod picks up the slack just fine. Like Roger said, Leica does not preclude anything. Most real pros have more than few bodies lying around, and so do most of those who love photography.

In fact Leica is a glue which helps bind the story of photography. If they ever go out of business it will be a mental catastrophe. But it so happens, this moment they are making 3 of the best cameras ever, S, SL and M...wait 4...add Q, and a bevy of spectacular lenses.

The price of "club" admission, has never been lower because in spite of misintertepations to the contrary, both the M8 and M9 are unbelievably good cameras, warts and all, and quite affordable. Lenses are really low now. 50 Lux can be found as low as 2200, and this is far lower the Leica R 50lux (II), which easily commands 3 grand.

Leica is an intregal part of the culture of photography, and the ability of only the name to fire passion, negative and positive, shows just how strong the "brand" remains. :)
 
thompsonks said:
The investment used to last decades, but now they 'last' just a few years.
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I don't understand this statement: Leica lenses will last and be relevant for decades. So will today's Leica film bodies. Digital camera bodies will have a limited shelf life due to the nature and fast pace of digital technology.
 
Let me summarize what I have learned from this thread:

1) Before Leica had digital cameras in their product line, people felt alienated that Leica didn't offer digital products. Now that they have added digital cameras (not replaced analogue cameras!), people are alienated that the digital cameras don't last as long as their analog counterparts.

2) People complain how expensive Leicas have become when they have always been expensive.

Pretty absurd, if you ask me. :bang:
 
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