Has the M8 saved Leica

[alan davus]

I remember when the newly designed Volkswagen Beetle was released in Adelaide some years ago. The vehicle dealerships selling it were run off their feet going hammer and tongs taking orders-they'd never seen any thing like it. For one week then nothing. Everyone who wanted one flooded the places in that first week and after that it was spot the customer. I hope its not like that for the M8 though I suspect Leica are on a winner here. But will non Leica users be attracted to it or will it be just getting existing analogue Leica people on board. I guess it begs another question, will the M7 and Mp be Leicas final M film cameras?

 

[rolo]

2006 turnover of Leica Camera AG was 107 Mio EUR. I would guess a third of that or so is accounted for by the M system,
so roughly 40-50 Mio US. If they manage to sell 1000-2000 M8 cameras in 2006, the generated US 5 - 10 Mio US can
have a major impact.

Roland.

The M8 UK target for 2007 is 5,000 units.

 

[SnapperJ]

Plus, Leica may be "saved" as much by the middle market cameras (Digilux 3, D-Lux etc.) as by the M8 and DMR. At least financially.

I think that the middle cameras will be the only thing to save Leica. These cameras if popular will generate income without which Leica will find it hard to continue. Without a large income how will Leica continue to develope new products.

 

[sgy1962]

The M8 is a necessary element, but so is everything digital with the Leica tag. And in a couple of years the M9 will be just as important, as will any new D products, and whatever they do with the R line -- R10 or DMR2. Some dealers here in the states have waiting lists of 50-60 people for the M8, and that should sound pretty good to the accounting department at Leica.

 

[sgy1962]

I agree with Sean - the M8 is going to save a great company. After the whirlwind subsides and my bank account recovers I will order a second body.
By the way, Sean, I hope you are ready to release that 'second' installment of the M8 evaluation. We're waiting with bated breath!
steve

By itself, maybe, but only in the short run. Future developments in the digital rangefinder will be necessary (I suspect to see a new digital M ever 3-4 years), as will the D line, and whatever they decide to do for the red headed stepchildren.

It will provide a tremendous influx of cash this year, which may provided resources for R&D and stimulate investor confidence.

What Zeiss does will also have an effect. If Zeiss can come out with a high quality digital rangefinder at half the cost.... But Zeis always appears to be a dollar short and day late.

 

[jaapv]

Plus, Leica may be "saved" as much by the middle market cameras (Digilux 3, D-Lux etc.) as by the M8 and DMR. At least financially.

I think that the middle cameras will be the only thing to save Leica. These cameras if popular will generate income without which Leica will find it hard to continue. Without a large income how will Leica continue to develope new products.

By middle camera's I presume you mean stuff like Digilux3 and V-lux1. It is hard to see those turning into high-profit money-makers, as they can only generate a mark-up over Panasonic's prices. Yes- it is easy money for Leica and a way to license more lenses, but to see that as a way of keeping the brand viable into the future is not very realistic. See what happened to Austin-BMC-BLMC. Badge engineering is never the answer imo. It makes one dependent on the technology of the original manufacturer and there is only so much one can do to add a brand identity. At best it works for keeping the company ticking over in difficult periods,as they did they last years, or to offer a complete palette to the customer, as they are doing now.
To stay alive Leica must develop its own products, and I think the way they are doing it now is pretty smart: hanging back until technology reaches a certain plateau and then jumping to the head of the pack. If they can keep this game of leap-frog up - and they only can with products of the unchallenged quality of the DMR and seemingly the M8- then they can survive in this jungle of molochs.

 

[SnapperJ]

To stay alive Leica must develop its own products, and I think the way they are doing it now is pretty smart: hanging back until technology reaches a certain plateau and then jumping to the head of the pack. If they can keep this game of leap-frog up - and they only can with products of the unchallenged quality of the DMR and seemingly the M8- then they can survive in this jungle of molochs.

I’m not sure that Leica will be able to survive only producing “high quality” products. The fact is that there is a limited number of consumers who are interested in buying expensive “high quality” Leica M and R models. Look at say Nikon or Canon, do you think they could stay afloat selling only there professional cameras? I think not. Most of there income is from lower end models.

 

[akptc]

More to Leica than the M8...

More to Leica than the M8...

Here is a story in Roads&Bridges that reminded me that there is more to Leica than just the M8.

 

[Mark Norton]

Here is a story in Roads&Bridges that reminded me that there is more to Leica than just the M8.

Completely different company and not in any way connected to Leica Camera AG. When Leica was going through a tough time commercially last year, both Leica Geosystems and Leica Microsystems were quick to distance themselves from their ailing cousin on their web-sites. Leica Geosystems is owned by a Swiss company.

 

[akptc]

Completely different company ... Leica Geosystems is owned by a Swiss company.

Well, crap, now I am worried again 😉

 

[ioriw]

Well I wonder who owns Leica Camera AG, who are the major shareholders? I gather that Hermes got rid of their holding earlier this year... would be nice to know where some of that £3000 will end up!

Iori

 

[georgl]

The Kaufmann-family of the austrian-company ACM holds 88% of Leica. Luckily, the CEO is a big Leica-fan and interested in the products, not in the brand, it seems to become a long-term relationship. He already mentioned that Leica shouldn't be part of the stock market (I'm not sure how to express that in english ;-).

Leica Geosystems and Microsystems are in fact Leica too - in 1988 Leitz was divided into three independent parts, because of that Leica camera moved to Solms while Leica microsystems stayed in Wetzlar.

 

[ioriw]

While we're at it, how much of the M8 is not 'Made in Germany' I wonder?

 

[jaapv]

Only the sensor and very few other parts.

 

[jaapv]

The Kaufmann-family of the austrian-company ACM holds 88% of Leica. Luckily, the CEO is a big Leica-fan and interested in the products, not in the brand, it seems to become a long-term relationship. He already mentioned that Leica shouldn't be part of the stock market (I'm not sure how to express that in english ;-).

Leica Geosystems and Microsystems are in fact Leica too - in 1988 Leitz was divided into three independent parts, because of that Leica camera moved to Solms while Leica microsystems stayed in Wetzlar.

Actually Herr Kaufmann is a RFF member.

 

[Bromo33333]

The Kaufmann-family of the austrian-company ACM holds 88% of Leica. Luckily, the CEO is a big Leica-fan and interested in the products, not in the brand, it seems to become a long-term relationship. He already mentioned that Leica shouldn't be part of the stock market (I'm not sure how to express that in english ;-).

"Going Private" is very popular amongst many companies that want to think longer term than on a quarter-to-quarter basis. Leica seems to be one of those companies that has a longer vision, so this is a viable option.

Might be kind of expensive, though if a family owns so much (88%) then it is considerably easier if they then have 100% ownership they would only have to buy out the 12% of the other shares, then "go private", right? 😛

 

[georgl]

"While we're at it, how much of the M8 is not 'Made in Germany' I wonder?"

That's not so easy to tell. Leica once calculated it for the R8, over 70% was actually "Made in Germany".

It's true that in Solms only the assemblation and quality-control happens, but all the suppliers for special parts are from Germany and producing in Germany. The sensor is from Kodak ISS NY, the shutter is a usual Copal (Seiko) from Japan, certain ICs and the LCD are from asia too. I've once read that the main-processor from the DMR was british!? But I think all parts custom-made for the M8 are actually "Made in Germany" (except viewfinder-assemblation in Portugal by Leica?).
I think they've done an extremly well job on quality, absolutly nothing shows any sign of cost-cutting. The same expensive materials, the same CNC-machined parts, hand-painted symbols, perfect fit&finish...
Just don't worry about quality, "Made in Germany" is more than just a marketing trick on the Leica M8 (when they make most of the work elsewhere, they were always honest: "Made in Japan", "Made in Portugal").

@Bromo33333 vbmenu_register("postmenu_400777", true);

You're absolutly right, I've noticed it myself. Most companies which still produce real german engineering and quality are thinking that way - it's the only way to ensure long-term thinking.
The reason why they became an AG was the huge investment necessary for the R8 - ten years later (although the R8 is an extraordinary camera) people think differently...

 

[Olsen]

- The M8 has saved Leica. For the time being....

The M8 buying craze will be over by a year or so. Then Leica must have something new up their sleave. That is how the camera market is working today. New models are neccessary to keep a steady money flow.

I would suggest a new all digital R with full frame and 21 mill. pixels, launched at Fotokina next year. With AF and a new range of more digital-adjusted spectre of optics? - Or a cheaper entry level digital SLR...?

Then a new M9 in 2008... Same 1,3 crop sensor, but 16 mill. pixels and less noice in high ISO - and so on...

- If they fall back to old sins and launch a new camera every 10 years Leica is finnished.

That said; it is mindboggling to see how much Canon is making on the switch to digital. On the expense of all the other camera producers. The camera division of Canon, once equal to Nikon's, but now has more than twice the turnover - and five - six times more profitable as Nikon's, is the only real winner of the digital switch.

Close to 80% of all the digital camera profit ends up in Canon's pockets. Think about that. It is first of all the expensive pro D-SLR models that produces this impressive bootom line (lenses and flashes included).

I see only Leica that has a reputation among pro's en par with Canon and Nikon (a good no. 2) that could, hypotetically, be a real threat to Canon and Nikon. But to fullfill that role could cost a fortune. - Just look at how Sony is maneuvering like hell to get into a no. 3 position. But among pro photographers, I am sure, Sony is more related to 'gimicks' like Playstation and portable CCD players than cameras, while Leica has a camera history and tradition....

Let's hope mr. Hofmann has deep pockets...

 

[khoking]

Digital is the only way out for Leica. Many richman are waiting for Leica to produce a Digital M...regardless of the price and those richie rich will buy it for the name and reputation of Leica.

Leica film body are so lasting...and with less and less people buying new Leica M film camera now...Digital Leica M8 will definitely boost the sales of Leica 🙂

So, will M8 save Leica? My answer is yes...for the time-being 😛