Has there been a change in the 50 sonnar?

[x-ray]

The more I read the less i thin the Sonnar is for me. I need greatperformance at 1.5 all the way down. I shoot documentary work with my 35 and want it sharp. I'm not interested in owning a bag of 50mm lenses that perform best at different apertures. On 50mm lens per kit.

Looks like the Nokton is the only real choice for an all around performer at all apertures.

 

[Harry Lime]

I considered the Noctilux but understand it's known for it's focus shift too. I have a cv 35 1.2 and a 75 1.4 summilux and use the heck out of them but do need the 1.4/1.5 speed in the 50. A focus shift is unacceptable in my work.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

I read somewhere that Zeiss is dialing in the focus at f1.5 now on the Sonnar. Seems like a lot of people were shipping their lenses back to the factory to be recalibrated.

You are going to experience focus shift with any highspeed lens, regardless of brand. The faster the lens, the bigger the problem.

It's a law of nature, that we really can't eliminate. Some optical formula appear to be less prone to focus shift than others. I think it is more obvious with modern, highly corrected lenses, because the transition from in focus to out of focus is a lot more abrupt, than with the older, less corrected lenses. So, there is less 'slack' to hide any issues with focus shift. Also the increased contrast of modern glass tends to reveal this issue more than the older glass.

I used to have the Noct and traded it for a 1.4/50 Lux. F1 sounded good on paper, but was next to impossible at that aperture to focus on anything that was moving even slightly. Especially if it was less than 5 meters away. DOF at 1 meter is 5mm! So, I ended up shooting mostly at f1.4.

 

[Harry Lime]

The more I read the less i thin the Sonnar is for me. I need greatperformance at 1.5 all the way down. I shoot documentary work with my 35 and want it sharp. I'm not interested in owning a bag of 50mm lenses that perform best at different apertures. On 50mm lens per kit.

Looks like the Nokton is the only real choice for an all around performer at all apertures.

In that case get a Nocton or Summilux (pre-ASPH or ASPH).

I shoot street and documentary work with my Lux pre-ASPH and very happy with it.
It's better than both my Canon EF 1.4/50 and Zeiss ZF 1.4/50.

The Pre-ASPH Lux was designed by Leica for photojournalists shooting Tri-X (large grain films).

 

[Samsam]

Hi Harry,
i would like to know how does the 50mm summilux pre asph perform compared to the 50mm summilux ASPH. My father got a Summilux ASPH but i've never seen pics of the pre asph, does it have an "old" look in b&w ?

 

[x-ray]

Harry:

I appreciate your comments and will take a look at the pre asph. If I remember correctly the formula is the same from generation to generation but coatings changed. Is that correct?

 

[Krosya]

Well, I just got an email from Zeiss and according to them - Sonnar C is still being sold to dealers calibrated to f2.8 focus. They will be happy to readjust it to 1.5 for free as long as lens under warranty and it's done on individual bases.

 

[x-ray]

Thanks for the information. Because i'm wanting a lens that's very sharp at f1.4/1.5 and still at smaller apertures I think the Sonnar is the wrong lens for me.

Thinking about this problem with my asph summilux, when it comes back from DAG I'll see how it goes and if the problem crops up again I'll get it fixed one more time and sell it and buy another Nokton 50. I like the asph summilux but depend on it working and not sitting in the shop. Many of the shots I make are a ons time opportunity with no second chance. Too much to risk on a problem body or lens.

 

[summilux]

c sonnar is a sharp lens at f1.5, but you can't rely on the focus patch to tell the focus, you have to first bracket focus to see where the focus point lie in relation to the patch.

 

[x-ray]

c sonnar is a sharp lens at f1.5, but you can't rely on the focus patch to tell the focus, you have to first bracket focus to see where the focus point lie in relation to the patch.

That just won't work for what I shoot. A lens like that is totally useless to me.

 

[peter_n]

Surely this is true of most people? Zeiss make wonderful lenses, but I don't understand how they are achieving sales with a lens that requires mental calisthenics in use. I mean I can't even focus straight with a lens that focuses properly, never mind ooh what's my aperture?, erm do I nudge it back? a bit forward? maybe change the aperture a bit? Oops, shot's gone... :bang:

 

[goo0h]

I mean I can't even focus straight with a lens that focuses properly, never mind ooh what's my aperture?, erm do I nudge it back? a bit forward? maybe change the aperture a bit? Oops, shot's gone... :bang:

😉 Yeah, I'm the same way. I have tended to always push the film a tad bit anyways, so ended up going with the ZM 50 f2. Haven't yet finished the first roll through it. (Things have been particularly hectic lately.) Hope to do so this weekend. Anxious to see how it turns out....

 

[summilux]

true, the same thing can be said of Noctilux, but c sonnar already has a nice bokeh at f2.8. but i wonder if there is anything that can be done to make a more elaborate cam. i like the lens really, i have sold it but i plan to buy it again.

 

[Dan States]

I think the problem is that no cam profile will eliminate the effects of focus shift. If it is in focus at 1.5 it will back focus at smaller apertures, regardless of the focus cam.

I'm still baffled that they released a lens with SO MUCH focus shift...It's on par with the old Sonnar F2...and worse by far than the Sonnar F1.5 (yeah, I've read the comments and I'm not buying it...my old 1.5's do not shift more than depth of field).

If they really want to satisfy collectors AND users why not just put out the OLD Sonnar, unchanged, with rotating mount and all...That's what we really all wanted any way right?

 

[thomasw_]

Hey xray, no the v2 and 3 are optically different from the flare ridden v1. v2 and v3 are only cosmetically different; v3 having a 46mm cap because of the built in hood. i prefer the v2 as it is slightly more compact with a 43mm cap and just seems like a zm ergonomically.

v2 summilux's in excellent condition can be purchased for around 1100, so if you sell your asph and buy a v2, you'll still have some pesos to put toward that 85/2 sonnar.

respectfully, thoams

 

[gavinlg]

I'm not going to lie to you guys - I think this whole focus shift thing is a pile of crap. I bet if most of you actually bought the lens and used it in real life situations, viewed the prints, you would LOVE it. Every lens has a focus shift at different apertures. The apparently larger shift in the c sonnar is no doubt a product of the design, and this would be what makes it take those beautiful beautiful portraits and pictures in general.

Zeiss have adviced people pushing internet crap-facts about focus shifts and blah blah blah to actually go out and shoot with the lens before they complain or ask for it to be "corrected".

This tells me a lot.

 

[gavinlg]

Sorry, I didn't answer your question very well though. I think the sonnar was definitely designed as a portrait lens and therefor has some quirky characteristics, however if you can buy one, try it and if you dont like it, take it back - why not? It looks to me like it has the most beautiful rendition of all the new 50s.

 

[gertf]

Anyone ever found out whether the lens, corrected for f1.5, would have the focus point at smaller apertures covered by DOF?

 

[rxmd]

Anyone ever found out whether the lens, corrected for f1.5, would have the focus point at smaller apertures covered by DOF?

Theoretically at f/2 the difference wouldn't be covered by DOF, while from f/2.8 onwards it should be more or less OK. It's difficult to say how relevant this is in practice, since we are talking about very small differences here, with a portrait lens (which the Sonnar effectively is) one tends to photograph curved objects anyway. People apparently have less of a problem with it in the real world than all the Internet writing about the lens would suggest.

Philipp

 

[gertf]

Thanks Philipp!

 

[Krosya]

I also wonder if there are some of the Sonnars worse than others. I don't have this lens, - so can't say or compare, yet I have seen some examples of the photos taken with it here and on other sites that show no visible shift wide open, while some others are completely unusable. Don't know why that is. Me - I have J-3 and ZK 50/2 - both copies of old Sonnars. WHile I never tested them for focus shift - in real world use I never noticed that to be a problem with either one.
And actually, I have seen here on RFF many photos taken with J-3 that are absolutely superb, so I really don't see a reason for me to want the new Sonnar C. But it's just my opinion. I'm sure there are people that use one with great success and pleasure and would never trade it for anything. Everyone is different. All I'm saying is that Sonnar C is not the only option.