Have I wasted over $10000 ?

This thread brings to mind the pros and cons of the edit process. Sometimes you open yourself to discouraging comments simply by not editing or labelling or captioning well. If its just a personal shot it goes in the personal folder. If its a shot you have exhibited or published or whatever, it doesn't hurt to advertise that fact by naming the folder "my best so far".
Personally, a folder labeled portfolio with between 1 and 12 pix is "it".

nb, I'm only talking 'bout amateurs (lovers) doing it for the joy of it. Not legendary shooters with "awesome" cred.
 
This had better be a pretty big bucket Colin- I bet most of us would feel the need to join you!

It is in the end not only about the pictures is it? For me the process is a great part of the fun- getting out and doing the shooting, seeing that film come out of the can, the printing. I feel pretty good if I get 10 pictures in a year that I really like enough to print all the way. But who's counting?

And as far as critique goes, I'll agree with much of the above. I find I have two really close friends whose opinions I value, we bring work to each other on occassion and have it out- what's good, what's not, why this one is a piece of tihs. I listen, digest, argue a little here and there and in the end if I like the image I like the image. Even a trusted and valued friend won't change that.

Lets not even start on what the dealers have to say, because they are (almost) always right. You do get some little victories here and there with them, but it is much the same thing- they run the space, it's their name on the door over yours, so what they like best goes up.

I wouldn't trade my M's for anything but food when it gets to that (except the M6😀 ). I'd say your best choice would be to take a few days and really dive into the project headfirst- damn the torpedos, you know?
 
Just remember, You might as well spend it because you can't take it with you. I have some pretty crappy photos posted but I'm not going to give up. Sure I get discouraged after I take a photo and the outcome isn't what I had hoped to acheive but I keep on trying. I saw your photos and they wern't too bad. The one with the two holding hands looked to be intentional blur. You got the top of the background in focus. I thought that was neat. The one shot, Nice Door, the angle was much like a Winogrand shot. Don't worry what people say about your work. I've read right here people criticizing Winogrands work so just keep posting your work and enjoy yourself.
 
Colin

Colin

I spent several minutes perusing your efforts in the gallery and I must say that if I could take pictures like these I would be ecstatic ! I liked most of them and only one I didn't care for. I have to tell you that when I started to post I got only negatives, no positives but I continued to post and some were well received. So,I like most of the photos I take and if no one likes them that's tough.One comment I received was five words long - "the camera is not level". So just keep it up and keep posting. 🙂
 
My mom thinks all my pictures are great !!! Have someone who loves you take a look at your photographs ; )...as far as wasted money ...no way ...enjoy it ,be creative .... there is more to it than just the equipment and the photographs ...I can not quite figure out what it is but there is something .....
 
colinh said:
I just added up all I've spent on Leica/ZM cameras and lenses.

If you haven't done this, then don't! It's depressing. 🙂


So, after nearly a year of not bothering to scan anything, I get all interested in a particular idea, something I personally have never tried before, shoot 60 pictures in 2 hrs, develop, scan, create my first gallery here, and mention it in a thread.

And then, [sniff], I get ONE comment that the images are blurred, out of focus and have weird angles.

All true of course, but some of them were interesting (I thought).

Someone recently posted (in a thread on film) that a shot I'd taken had prompted him to try a particular film. Ah, made me proud that did. Of course, it was taken on a Contax SLR and not a Leica RF.

It's alright though. Don't mind me - I'll go and stick my head in a bucket and go and rust quietly in the corner.

colin
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Yeah, you used some non-standard angles, and one photo was blurred. Big deal. If YOU like them and are enjoying the use of the equipment, you haven't wasted anything.
 
Wow!

Wow!

You guys are really nice, which is why RFF is everyone's favourite forum, I guess.

My sincere thanks for all your kind words - even though I wasn't actually as depressed as some of you may have thought. Well, not about photography, anyway.

Alright, I was disappointed that (when I wrote the post that started this thread) there was only one comment. The comment itself though, was perfectly OK.

The thread in question was http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=605160

You can add comments now, if you like 🙂


The "don't mind me..." sentence was a sort of oblique reference to Marvin in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I.e. intended to be humorous.

Actually, instead of going to rust in a corner, I went downstairs to the darkroom, to see if the second roll was dry. Since it was, I've just spent a while scanning. And since I can't upload any more to the gallery today, I'll have to attach one or two of the new batch here.

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colin
 
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colin ~ I'm afraid you're wasting both your time and your money. Send me your gear and take up pottery. 😉

I guess I was posting to your "Close up..." thread about the same time you were kicking this one off. So I'll add here too, I think your Close.Up.Street approach is quite promising - and for me anyway, something I intend to mull about and maybe take a shot at. As I mentioned in the other thread, I hope you continue down that road and see where it takes you.

p.s. ~ suggestion: stick a link to your gallery in your sig.
 
$10K? Piker. Seriously -- unless you are a professional, you have to view this as an entertainment expense -- like travel, restaurants, music, books, movies, theater, dance, and so on. Seen in that light, and over the right amount of time, it's not so much. And seriously . . . piker.
 
colinh said:
shoot 60 pictures in 2 hrs, develop, scan, create my first gallery here, and mention it in a thread.
colin
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Hello Colin. Just my experience: It takes a lot of time to look at and respond thoughtfully to posted photos; especially if you are looking for responses that say something more than, "nice photos." I got some useful feedback from one photo that I posted in the Critique Forum. Basically, I was challenged, "Why did you post this crappy photo?" Well, I knew it was crappy, which was why I was posting it for critique, and, like I said, the exchange was very helpful to me.

Today, I posted another single photo on the M8 Forum. So far, no response. Maybe it should have gone on another forum. I posted there because I wasn't looking so much for critique (I do like the photo), but was (still am) hoping to get some feedback on my criteria for selecting photos. An observation: your "assignment" to yourself seems like a good way to discipline yourself to get out with the camera, but I'd like to know why you selected the particular photos once they were taken----that is, beyond the fact that they occurred within a time frame. In other words, when I can triangulate image with motive, I learn and see what I might otherwise miss. That makes me a better photographer.

Regarding the two pics posted above, and with all respect, why did you select these? What do you like about them. Which of your most important street photography criteria do they meet?

Martin.
 
IMO, the significance here is not necessarily the pictures, but the manner of shooting: in your face, no attempt at deception, overt street photography. Colin, you have my respect and admiration for making this breakthrough, something I am still on the cusp on.
 
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MartinL said:
Hello Colin. Just my experience: It takes a lot of time to look at and respond thoughtfully to posted photos; especially if you are looking for responses that say something more than, "nice photos."
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You're absolutely right. I rarely comment on other people's photos. Generally on ones I consider excellent. The ones I find pointless - well, I assume I just don't get it.

Today, I posted another single photo on the M8 Forum. So far, no response. Maybe it should have gone on another forum. I posted there because I wasn't looking so much for critique (I do like the photo), but was (still am) hoping to get some feedback on my criteria for selecting photos.
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🙂 I saw that. I even started a reply (I was disagreeing). Then I thought the tone was unfriendly and deleted it.

An observation: your "assignment" to yourself seems like a good way to discipline yourself to get out with the camera, but I'd like to know why you selected the particular photos once they were taken----that is, beyond the fact that they occurred within a time frame. In other words, when I can triangulate image with motive, I learn and see what I might otherwise miss. That makes me a better photographer.

Regarding the two pics posted above, and with all respect, why did you select these? What do you like about them. Which of your most important street photography criteria do they meet?
Click to expand...


I get out with my camera a lot, I often just don't find anything worth taking a picture of. This "assignment" got me to take a lot of pictures and get close. I've noticed, after developing, that I need a faster film.

Now, why did I select these? Well, they were the only ones I liked. This is where we start talking different languages. I don't triangulate images with motives, and I don't have street photography criteria.

The pictures all have in common that there is a pretty/beautiful girl/woman on it somewhere. I took some shots of the scariest, fattest, hairy men I could find (really) to see if they would beat me up. They didn't even notice. I like the ones with pretty girls better. Especially if there's something else that makes the shot interesting.

So Cool: The guy has cool shades, a cigarette hanging from his lips, a lot more hair than me, a beautiful girlfriend and the background makes Munich look pretty. But, dammit, I have $10,000 of Leica gear in my bag!

It all happened so fast: I like the way they look like ghosts. More than just a little motion blur to denote speed - so much more it looks deliberate.

Nice door: I liked the angle. And the girl is pretty. The guy looking the other way makes it more interesting. Don't know why.

The girl sitting (above): Very beautiful. But what does that expression mean? Probably nothing unusual, but I can interpret it as meaning all sorts of things. I made it extra dark and cropped close, to make the surroundings more - threatening?

The girl standing (above): very pretty, again. Thought I'd make a joke about her phoning her parents. Not very good though, since there's no way on earth they could be her parents. Compare the bags!


I can't really help you with (your) motives and criteria. These shots are not composed - they're barely even framed. There wasn't time (for me). I saw an interview with HCB. Apparently he *could* do raise camera, click, lower camera. And get a well composed shot. But then, he's famous - and I'm not.

colin
 
I like this one. That little sign in the upper portain says it all.
Seriously though, after working as a pro for 40+ years, $10K is nothing. Luckily, I will be offically retired from photography after one more shoot next year. My slate is clean till then. I am leaving the DSLR world and getting back into film, where my roots started back in the mid 60's. Although not up to the $10K with film, I am nearly half way there. And, my film photos are nowhere near the quality of my DSLR work, YET.
I figure a couple of rolls a day, and in about a year, I should be back to where I want to be.




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If I totalled what I've spent in the last 4 years it would easily amount to your $10,000. However, you must allways keep things in perspective. A good mate of mine returned from a 4 week holiday to Europe on Monday. Part of the trip was a 13 day cruise around the Mediterranean. The bar bill for him and wife Heather was $2700. And like he said to me today, thats not including what they spent ashore elsewhere. And thank your lucky stars you're hobby is photography and not highend hifi for example. When I bought a new M6ttl earlier this year, I honestly felt $2000 odd dollars for something I knew would give me heaps of pleasure and enjoyment was cheap. Of my own photography, the only one I feel obliged to please is myself. If I feel good about what I've taken thats all that matters. If not, I try to analize what I don't like and what I could have done better and get it right next time.
 
People are always going to have different ideas as to what they think is good or acceptable. Obviously there are certain 'rules' that need to be understood in photoraphy but so long as you know those rules there is no reason why you cannot break those rules... so long as you know why your breaking them, etc.

Just like with writing literature, etc. There are always exceptions and reasons to break rules of canon.

Dont give up though. Keep working at it.

I am no professional photographer. I have only started honestly shooting film in the past two months... and even then it is only a hobby... (one that i love obviously). Not everyones going to like your work... but if your satisfied with your work then thats ultimately all that matters. What I find most valuable is getting constructive criticism about my photos, etc. Its always good to hear why someone likes your photos and why... but also just as good to hear why someone might not like your photo so much and what they think could have been done differently. It gives your oom for improvement


🙂
 
You need to know that sometimes, the comments you consider most hurtful may end up as the most beneficial.

Some time ago, I thought I was documenting the Taste of Chicago in an unparallelled manner with my Nikon AF SLR and a long zoom. When I got the prints I scanned them and posted them in a form (that shall remain nameless).

Bam! The one and only reaction was strong. Not nasty, but really strong. I erupted back... and almost right away I had to admit to the criticism, so I regretted my post (it was impossible to edit). The other poster and I ended up having a "posting" conversation that I found most illuminating. I learned a lot that particular time.

And I also came to the conclusion that impressing others isn't the reason I took up photography as a hobby. In fact, I did it because I like taking pictures; my photos are postcardy, uninteresting and very seldom good, but heck, I like making these images and, if I can, hanging them in my studio. Besides, I feel really happy when my wife looks at one and says something like "Did you take that photo?"

Usually I say "yes"

"It's really good" she says. And coming from her, it's an achievement. Like Ralph's wife, she's my toughest critic, never afraid of saying to me "that's not a good photo."

Hence, Colin, get back on the saddle and become your fiercest critic. That'll turn you into your best friend! 🙂
 
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