nome_alice
Established
in camera film development. just need to make sure the tap fitting on the side of the camera is designed nicely.
How about a hybrid digital sensor / film camera? 
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Why not one single more film camera precisely now? In 2009 yes, but... not in 2010?
David Hegar
Established
I think the latest release of serious film camera was already happened in the past a few years ago.
With the biggest film makers are down-sizing their product lines, and the digital sensors are closely approaching film in term of dynamic-range...the film cameras (and also films) market is going to be just a very micro-tiny slice with even fewer users who can't generate enough $$$ and demands for camera and film manufacturers to keep doing film related R&D.
-d
With the biggest film makers are down-sizing their product lines, and the digital sensors are closely approaching film in term of dynamic-range...the film cameras (and also films) market is going to be just a very micro-tiny slice with even fewer users who can't generate enough $$$ and demands for camera and film manufacturers to keep doing film related R&D.
-d
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
I understand: next time a new film camera is offered, the near 200(!) voters saying we already saw the last film camera, will say I wasn't wrong, that's a new film camera, but I don't consider it serious...
I didn't vote, by the way, but today I just checked the results expecting the usual 5 or 10 film is dead people... Wow! What a surprise! This forum should be called DRFF... Numbers speak clearly about this forum member's imagination... For sure there'll be new film cameras! For decades! This deserves my vote.
Cheers,
Juan
I didn't vote, by the way, but today I just checked the results expecting the usual 5 or 10 film is dead people... Wow! What a surprise! This forum should be called DRFF... Numbers speak clearly about this forum member's imagination... For sure there'll be new film cameras! For decades! This deserves my vote.
Cheers,
Juan
David Hughes
David Hughes
Leica R8? The film camera bodies are getting seriously cheap and the digital backs are approaching he wish list parameters...
godfrog
Member
Areas playing to the strengths of film, "sensor" size and resolution potential, are still seeing new cameras introduced. Just look at LF makers.
Film will see improvements. Chemistry and nanotechnology are always moving forward, there is bound to be something that will be useful in film production.
For MF makers lacking ideas Ill give a suggestion. Build a metered 6x9 RF folder, 110/3.5 (possibly even faster) modern lens, make it no bigger than it needs to be (due to film rolls/capture area), no heavier than needed (modern materials). So far its much like the recent 667, but to give people a reason to use it over older cameras, give it a motion sensor (which have recently become cheap). This would allow the user to compensate for focus error when doing focus/recompose with a tiny DOF. Resolution that beats FF digital, somewhat compact, big aperture performance and usability that beats older MF cameras.
Film will see improvements. Chemistry and nanotechnology are always moving forward, there is bound to be something that will be useful in film production.
For MF makers lacking ideas Ill give a suggestion. Build a metered 6x9 RF folder, 110/3.5 (possibly even faster) modern lens, make it no bigger than it needs to be (due to film rolls/capture area), no heavier than needed (modern materials). So far its much like the recent 667, but to give people a reason to use it over older cameras, give it a motion sensor (which have recently become cheap). This would allow the user to compensate for focus error when doing focus/recompose with a tiny DOF. Resolution that beats FF digital, somewhat compact, big aperture performance and usability that beats older MF cameras.
David Hegar
Established
Looking back at the not too distant past when Nikon released their F6 , which btw I would consider the F6 a serious film camera (i.e. a film camera that a full time working photographer can see themselves using), how many of us here actually went out and bought F6? And how many of working photographers out there went out and bought F6? I'm sure there were a few full time photographers who bought Nikon F6 for their work, but most of them would rather invest their money somewhere else. To most full time photographers the serious film camera like Nikon F6 came out way too late when the digital SLR was gaining full steam.
On somewhat related note, I was travelling in a third world country last year and it was very difficult to find a 120 and 220 film (or any true BW 35mm film ) for my medium format cameras. Most of the camera stores I went to, even the biggest ones, said that no one is using film anymore and that I have to special order the films. Digital capture is just "cheaper" for the mass.
I want film camera to stay. My dream is that camera makers to keep pumping up "serious film cameras" one after another, but it's just not going to happen. The cost of film and processing fee alone is prohibitive to most hobbyist and professional alike, with the exception of the hard core film users.
I like to shoot film for my own personal stuffs. But I don't want to deal with film when I have to shoot for my clients. And I'm not alone in this line of thought. And camera makers, as much as they would like to design newer film cameras they won't find enough die-hard film users to make their R&D cost worthwhile to come up with another "serious film camera". Yes, Fuji make toy polaroid-type cameras (saw them at Target), but really....it's not a "serious film camera"
On somewhat related note, I was travelling in a third world country last year and it was very difficult to find a 120 and 220 film (or any true BW 35mm film ) for my medium format cameras. Most of the camera stores I went to, even the biggest ones, said that no one is using film anymore and that I have to special order the films. Digital capture is just "cheaper" for the mass.
I want film camera to stay. My dream is that camera makers to keep pumping up "serious film cameras" one after another, but it's just not going to happen. The cost of film and processing fee alone is prohibitive to most hobbyist and professional alike, with the exception of the hard core film users.
I like to shoot film for my own personal stuffs. But I don't want to deal with film when I have to shoot for my clients. And I'm not alone in this line of thought. And camera makers, as much as they would like to design newer film cameras they won't find enough die-hard film users to make their R&D cost worthwhile to come up with another "serious film camera". Yes, Fuji make toy polaroid-type cameras (saw them at Target), but really....it's not a "serious film camera"
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David Hegar
Established
btw, I see a similarity between the topic we're discussing here to the way phones manufacturer design and produce their phones.
When the last time did we see a breakthrough (or any advertisment) in land-line "serious phone" unit? What we are seeing now is that phone manufacturers putting their R&D effort on cell phones technology, instead of pumping up yesteryear cord-locked phone units.
-David
When the last time did we see a breakthrough (or any advertisment) in land-line "serious phone" unit? What we are seeing now is that phone manufacturers putting their R&D effort on cell phones technology, instead of pumping up yesteryear cord-locked phone units.
-David
40oz
...
When is the last time we saw a breakthrough in cell phone technology that improved the phone part?
There are certain technologies that are mature and don't require year-by-year incremental improvement. A "cord-locked" phone works when there is no power. There is a federal mandate that guarantees that functionality. It isn't subject to electromagnetic interference from microwave ovens, hair dryers, etc.
And apparently you haven't been in a modern office lately, where every desk still has a "cord-locked" phone.
Cell phones are a convenience, but as much as cell phone makers and cariers would love to have you believe they are superior to "cord-locked" designs, they are inferior in every way in the phone part.
It's funny how people are so quick to forget reality when faced with non-stop marketing.
David Hughes
David Hughes
There was a Minolta ( ? 3000 or 5000 ?) years ago that took a little card, like the digital SD cards and it was RAM setting up the camera for various modes, like portrait, landscape etc. You sometimes see them on ebay.
Anyway, wouldn't it be nice if we could use film and put a little card in the camera and get the time, date aperture and shutter speed recorded? Like the EXIF in digital? r a magnetic track on the film for it or even have it burnt (optically) into the unused part of the 35mm film? It would save me a lot of scribbling in little notebooks...
Anyway, wouldn't it be nice if we could use film and put a little card in the camera and get the time, date aperture and shutter speed recorded? Like the EXIF in digital? r a magnetic track on the film for it or even have it burnt (optically) into the unused part of the 35mm film? It would save me a lot of scribbling in little notebooks...
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I have an F6 which shared the body with the D2x. I mainly shoot manual lenses on the F6 and love the camera but technology is advancing especially in autofocus and too bad no new F film body will benefit from it. How does that affect a manual lens shooter like me?
I converted a 90mm Summicron-R to Nikon F mount for a friend and was trying it out on his D3 a camera a generation ahead of the D2x/F6. His diopter setting was on the other side of the dial and I didn't want to mess with it so I shot frame after frame wide open mostly head shots to made sure there wasn't any problems with the conversion. Because the diopter correction was off by about +3 I could hardly see anything through the finder and instead relied totally on the electronic focus confirmation on the D3. All the shots were sharp and in focus. I cannot do this with the F6. The F6 hunts and often will not lock on and very frustrating that green light just blinks.
I converted a 90mm Summicron-R to Nikon F mount for a friend and was trying it out on his D3 a camera a generation ahead of the D2x/F6. His diopter setting was on the other side of the dial and I didn't want to mess with it so I shot frame after frame wide open mostly head shots to made sure there wasn't any problems with the conversion. Because the diopter correction was off by about +3 I could hardly see anything through the finder and instead relied totally on the electronic focus confirmation on the D3. All the shots were sharp and in focus. I cannot do this with the F6. The F6 hunts and often will not lock on and very frustrating that green light just blinks.
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Ray, have you tried installing a different focus screen in your F6?
I installed an L screen, and it made a world of difference for me. I had trouble manual focusing with the standard screen, but with the new screen I find it just as easy as focusing an F2 or F3. The image really snaps into focus.
I installed an L screen, and it made a world of difference for me. I had trouble manual focusing with the standard screen, but with the new screen I find it just as easy as focusing an F2 or F3. The image really snaps into focus.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
Jon, the electronic focus confirmation was the reason I got the F6, else I would have bought an F3P. When the focus won't lock on I just bracket my focusing and do get a percentage of keepers. It is not a deal breaker. I just mentioned this as an example that film cameras can benefit from new technology.
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I see where you're coming from now, Ray. Unfortunately, the focus confirmation light function for AF cameras of that generation doesn't really cut it for apertures faster than f/2.8. I had all sorts of problems with my D200 until I installed a Katzeye focus screen.
Finder
Veteran
Minolta had been there and done that. It is called a Data Memory Back DM-9. Also check the Data Saver DS-100.
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borrel
Børre Ludvigsen
Of course we haven't! What's up with you guys' confidence in innovation? Where is you memory of history? There is sure to be another Edwin Land in the future somewhere, a George Eastman, Oscar Barnack, Yoshihisa Maitani, and so on. One of them will come up with a film that looks like videotape, which you take out and "develop" in a reader, transferring 2 gigapixel pictures to your iPad IV and which never wears out. Another will make a new Kodachrome with variable ISO, gigamicron sized grain which will develop in daylight by adding salt and a dash of vinegar. The possibilities are endless. Others will make the mechanical cameras to use these films. They will be wonderfully svelte Leica IVf's, or old Nikon F2's, Minox 35z's, Olympus XB's, and Rolleiflex 3005's. Oh -- and you'll be able to get accessory backs with wafer-thin displays just for preview. For us old farts digital 36x24 sensors will come in DIY kits for those of us who will be nostalgic for old 50 megapixel cameras. The whole kit will fit right into the space taken up by the pressure plate and we'll be drooling over that "KODAK CMOS look" of the noisy pictures. "Noise? It's suppose to be there!"
- Børre
Enoyarnam
Member
The answer has to be no. Last week a brochure came through from Grays of Westminster. On the back page there is an advert for brand spanking new 'Nikon F2SB Photomic Body, Black Finish c/w 50mm F1.4 Nikkor lens'. Its £3.345 K'. As long as there is a market there will be reissue cameras plus other additions.
Papa Smurf
Established
Film will shine again!
Film will shine again!
I am hoping that Ikon and/or Bessa will continue to release new cameras for at least the next few years. I do not believe that film is dead and at some point the film manufacturers will realize that there is a core group of photographers that do and will continue to use film. After all one can still buy a Studebaker! The sensor manufacturers have come a long way in improving their sensors, but dynamic range is still limited. On the forums that I lurk, there are some jumping ship from film to digital and about as many returning to film after being disappointed by the best that digital could offer.
Peer pressure and economics will continues to drive digital sales and sales drives research. Improvements will continue to be made to the digital process; however one area of photography will continue to have a hold upon film. Police and scientific work where authenticity is required. Software refinements have made edited digital images more easily detectable, but each improvement in detection software brings a flood of new hackers to "beat" the improvement. Look at the anti-whatever software on your computer. The latest news is that if you are not updating your anti-virus, etc. software several times a day your computer is at risk!
My local photo store, after forty years in business, closed its doors Saturday, April 3rd, because their photo printer broke. The decision was that it was too expensive to replace it and the store would not be profitable with out the film processing revenues. Hmmm, what is a person to do? Wal-Mart and Walgreen's are still doing well in my area, or at least the Walgreen people tell me that they are keeping busy. As quickly as they sell out of the 4-packs of film, somebody besides me must be shooting film?
Film will shine again!
I am hoping that Ikon and/or Bessa will continue to release new cameras for at least the next few years. I do not believe that film is dead and at some point the film manufacturers will realize that there is a core group of photographers that do and will continue to use film. After all one can still buy a Studebaker! The sensor manufacturers have come a long way in improving their sensors, but dynamic range is still limited. On the forums that I lurk, there are some jumping ship from film to digital and about as many returning to film after being disappointed by the best that digital could offer.
Peer pressure and economics will continues to drive digital sales and sales drives research. Improvements will continue to be made to the digital process; however one area of photography will continue to have a hold upon film. Police and scientific work where authenticity is required. Software refinements have made edited digital images more easily detectable, but each improvement in detection software brings a flood of new hackers to "beat" the improvement. Look at the anti-whatever software on your computer. The latest news is that if you are not updating your anti-virus, etc. software several times a day your computer is at risk!
My local photo store, after forty years in business, closed its doors Saturday, April 3rd, because their photo printer broke. The decision was that it was too expensive to replace it and the store would not be profitable with out the film processing revenues. Hmmm, what is a person to do? Wal-Mart and Walgreen's are still doing well in my area, or at least the Walgreen people tell me that they are keeping busy. As quickly as they sell out of the 4-packs of film, somebody besides me must be shooting film?
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David Hegar
Established
How about 2G, 3G, 4G ? And do you know that what's been considered of "phone part" have been expanded?
But we got distracted here, my question is...how is your reply prove or disprove that there will be "newer serious film camera" in the future...when the big film maker themselves, i.e. the main enablers that we are still shooting films right now, are cutting down on films that they produce as time progresses ?
-d
But we got distracted here, my question is...how is your reply prove or disprove that there will be "newer serious film camera" in the future...when the big film maker themselves, i.e. the main enablers that we are still shooting films right now, are cutting down on films that they produce as time progresses ?
-d