HC-110 and a knife, paranoid?

[bert26]

Hi,

So I opened up a fresh bottle of HC-110 last night to process some rolls. I don't know why Kodak decided to make the plastic seal so hard to remove, like why isn't there just a little tab where you can pull it off? But as a result, I had to use a little knife to open it up. Although I was super careful, the developer is filled to the top of the bottle basically, and my little knife's tip was dipped into the developer. I processed 4 rolls and they all look fine, but is there a risk I may have compromised the developer? Like will there likely be issues in the future. The stuff I'm shooting is really important to me and If I ruin rolls it'll be a really big problem. Or am I tripping? I mean because of the way the bottle is sealed, I'm sure this happens to a ton of people. Plus I'm constantly sticking a glass thermometer in the bottle every time I get to processing. The knife wasn't clean; I used it earlier in the day to open a bottle of Stop and Fixer to mix new chemicals. I think a tiny bit of one of those chemicals got on the knife. It was dried on there when I opened the developer and didn't realize I used the same knife until afterwards. Should I stop tripping or chalk it up as a loss and get a new bottle? I'm about to drive to New Orleans and back for a project and probably shoot at least 20 rolls of stuff I'll never get again..

 

[Phil_F_NM]

You'll probably be fine. Even a teaspoon of fresh fixer isn't going to ruin a whole new bottle of HC110 concentrate. If you're really concerned, use the Dilution H method and add a small amount of time. In all reality, you probably won't
Why are you sticking a thermometer in it, is the real question? After that, do you clean the thermometer religiously? I have a set of great thermometers and I use them in all my chemistry but I clean them very well and I have never had a reason to stick a thermometer in a bottle of HC110 concentrate.

Phil Forrest

 

[charjohncarter]

I agree with Phil, but if you continue to be 'tripping,' develop one roll and check. My guess would be nothing is wrong with your developer. Old HC-110 lasted forever. I had one bottle for 6 years, and even at the end I didn't change my times. Plus by the end I wasn't as careful I was when the bottle was new.

 

[Freakscene]

The HC-110 is likely fine, but confidence helps get good results, so maybe a new bottle is a good idea for your important work. HC-110 was reformulated recently, so information about the old stuff may not hold for the new stuff.

To be certain, develop one of these to check:
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/1672109-Ilford-FP4-Plus-125-ISO-35mm-x-100-ft.-Process-Control-Strips
You need a way of checking density - a flatbed scanner works well, at least in my case, better than the expensive densitometer I had used since the 1990s.

Wash everything before it gets re-used in new or different chemistry, or buy separate openers for developer, stop and fix.

The best way to ward off paranoia in this sort of thing is with information that lets you understand what is going on.

Marty

 

[bert26]

Thanks for the information. Words like "probably fine" and "should be fine" made me decide to just chalk it up as a loss and buy a new bottle, sadly.

I stick a thermometer in the bottle to check the temperature, isn't that what you're supposed to do? I have one thermometer for developer/distilled water and a separate one for fixer/stop. I rinsed the hell out of the thermometer and wipe it dry with a clean paper towel before sticking it in a different chemical or water..

So bummed I threw away $35 but if I mess up $200+ worth of film on a trip that's costing me over $1,000, I'd likely just sell all my gear or quit for 6 months.

 

[Freakscene]

Thanks for the information. Words like "probably fine" and "should be fine" made me decide to just chalk it up as a loss and buy a new bottle, sadly.

I stick a thermometer in the bottle to check the temperature, isn't that what you're supposed to do? I have one thermometer for developer/distilled water and a separate one for fixer/stop. I rinsed the hell out of the thermometer and wipe it dry with a clean paper towel before sticking it in a different chemical or water..

So bummed I threw away $35 but if I mess up $200+ worth of film on a trip that's costing me over $1,000, I'd likely just sell all my gear or quit for 6 months.

You need to measure the temperature of the diluted working solution, not the concentrate. The temperature of the water will be much more important than the temperature of the concentrate, simply because you use it at 1+31 or greater dilution.

The rinsing you describe sounds adequate for a glass thermometer.

Marty

 

[bert26]

Oh my god, you're right. This whole time I've been switching the thermometer back and forth from the distilled water and developer, when I should have just been checking the mixed solution :bang:

Well, now I know. Gonna go buy a new bottle. I wonder if the shop will be down to return this to Kodak and hook up a new bottle. Probably not. I have to figure out how the hell to remove the seal with my hands lol.

I always have to put the chemicals in the fridge and pull them out over and over every 2 minutes to get the temp to 20 degrees and sometimes the chemicals will end up too cold and have to run under hot water but that's seldom. So I mean is it okay to put the mixed 1:31 developer solution I mix up in a measuring cup in and out of the fridge a few times? I just wonder because since the measuring cup isn't covered, there could be chance of contamination? Or nah?

 

[Phil_F_NM]

If the seal is the plastic thing that looks like foil, in the future just stick a sharp, clean knife in there and cut it out from the inside, leaving a thin, even strip of the old seal around the lip of the bottle.
As for Kodak, or anyone else taking that bottle back, I don't know of any business that will take returns on chemistry, especially that which is opened.
Just do a test strip, adjust your time if necessary, and move on. Don't throw a whole bottle of developer away. Considering the process you used, you may not have ever had a baseline of correct temperatures to work from, so wasting a liter of HC110, is not the way to fix this. Seriously, photo developing goes like this: weak base, stop, (usually) weak base. (Not just any weak base, of course.) The first base reduces the silver, the second step stops development, the third step removes unreduced silver halide and leaves the blackened silver on the film. That's it. Your HC110 is perfectly fine, as long as you take some time to do a little testing. It will be the equivalent of taking time to run one extra roll.

Don't put uncovered photo chemistry in a place where you may have food.

Phil Forrest

 

[Dan]

Oh my god, you're right. This whole time I've been switching the thermometer back and forth from the distilled water and developer, when I should have just been checking the mixed solution :bang:

Well, now I know. Gonna go buy a new bottle. I wonder if the shop will be down to return this to Kodak and hook up a new bottle. Probably not. I have to figure out how the hell to remove the seal with my hands lol.

I always have to put the chemicals in the fridge and pull them out over and over every 2 minutes to get the temp to 20 degrees and sometimes the chemicals will end up too cold and have to run under hot water but that's seldom. So I mean is it okay to put the mixed 1:31 developer solution I mix up in a measuring cup in and out of the fridge a few times? I just wonder because since the measuring cup isn't covered, there could be chance of contamination? Or nah?

A much better solution is to create a water bath around the container(s) of chemicals you're using. If they're too hot, use a bath with a few ice cubes; if too cold, obviously use heated water. To manipulate the final temps easier, just work with the actual amounts needed for processing. No use trying to warm a gallon of fixer when you only need 16oz!

 

[webOSUser]

I use an ice bath to temper the developer down to working temperature. I mix the developer, often HC110 by the way, in a 1/2 liter measuring cup and if it is above 20C, I put tap water and ice cubes in a 1 liter measuring cup and suspend the 1/2 liter cup in the cold water to cool the mixed developer down to the desired temperature.


Steve W

 

[Dante_Stella]

I use an ice bath to temper the developer down to working temperature. I mix the developer, often HC110 by the way, in a 1/2 liter measuring cup and if it is above 20C, I put tap water and ice cubes in a 1 liter measuring cup and suspend the 1/2 liter cup in the cold water to cool the mixed developer down to the desired temperature.


Steve W

The blue "ice packs" work really well for this. No worrying whether the cup with the ice is going to capsize.

And when liquid is really too hot, I pour it over one of those packs into the other container. Quick.

Dante

 

[wwfloyd]

...
I have to figure out how the hell to remove the seal with my hands lol.
...

I have not bought the new formulation of HC-110, yet. But, the original HC-110, and Kodafix, and Photo-Flo, etc. have a seal cutter built into the lid! Take a look at the odd tabs in the circular indent, on the outer surface of the lids. That's your seal cutter.

 

[mike rosenlof]

I have a lot of experience with HC110, but I don't calibrate my processes with a densitometer, or work to that sort of detail. Given that, I would not worry about contamination from a knife tip. But I recognize that peace of mind can be worth $35 also.

I don't recommend (as others have said) sticking a thermometer, especially wet, in the bottle of concentrate. The temperature of the mixed solution is what's important. The absence of water in the HC-110 concentrate is a big part of what makes it last so long.

 

[Rob-F]

The amount of fixer or stop left on the knife would have been microscopic. It would never occur to me to pitch out a new bottle of developer just for that! I would just use it. I'd be more worried about the acid discoloring my knife. Is it stainless, or high carbon?

 

[retinax]

The amount of fixer or stop left on the knife would have been microscopic. It would never occur to me to pitch out a new bottle of developer just for that! I would just use it. I'd be more worried about the acid discoloring my knife. Is it stainless, or high carbon?

+1
and some more characters, as required

 

[benlees]

You are tripping and almost trolling. You could probably spill your morning coffee in HC-110 and it would still work. Just watch the time.😛

 

[Papercut]

The amount of fixer or stop left on the knife would have been microscopic. It would never occur to me to pitch out a new bottle of developer just for that! I would just use it. I'd be more worried about the acid discoloring my knife. Is it stainless, or high carbon?

Same here -- wouldn't even cross my mind to be worried about this.

And some of us LIKE discoloration on our carbon knives! I've even been known to deliberately cause it (politely called "patina") on carbon knives with various slightly acidic substances. 😀

 

[Phil_F_NM]

You are tripping and almost trolling. You could probably spill your morning coffee in HC-110 and it would still work. Just watch the time.😛

Would that be Caffenol-110?

And some of us LIKE discoloration on our carbon knives! I've even been known to deliberately cause it (politely called "patina") on carbon knives with various slightly acidic substances. 😀

I love using yellow mustard. Recently tried pickle juice but the patina wasn't dark enough for me and it easily rubbed off. Not too long ago, I used a bunch of catsup that we bought which turned out to not be very good, and the patina was very rich. I've heard mayonnaise works as well but haven't tried it yet. That one will probably smell really bad, since the oxidation of the knife releases some pretty funky odors.

Ok, back on topic, HC110 is awesome.

Phil Forrest

 

[znapper]

Sure hope you have hung onto your first bottle.
HC-110 is sticky stuff, any residue on the knife would most likely be coated by dipping the knife in anyway.


Not trying to put ants in your brain, but some pollution from the stuff you use (even when cleaning) is likely to remain, like the reels and the developing-tank.


More than on your knife, but still not enough to influence your process.

HC-110 is expensive, I would have to spill a good slump of fixer in it to consider replacing it (and even then, I would test the stuff before tossing).