Chris Bail
Regular Guy
I paid $88 or 71 Euro for mine with worldwide delivery...is the difference the VAT I wonder? No VAT on my end.
HCB's The Decisive Moment - Reprinted
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I paid $88 or 71 Euro for mine with worldwide delivery...is the difference the VAT I wonder? No VAT on my end.
raid
Dad Photographer
The price went up.
raid
Dad Photographer
What is wrong with the book?
plummerl
Well-known
Looking at information on the original 1952 first editions, the size of the Steidl re-issue is exactly the same as the original. Of course, the price for the first edition is a touch higher (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=13618493201&clickid=wZ5Ttq0uCwZsUvHWdnTp-wp9UkVxseXtzTHW2A0&cm_mmc=aff-_-ir-_-73934-_-77797&afn_sr=impact.
😀
😀
peter_n
Veteran
It was very influential in it's time and so this reprinting is of historical interest. It was such an important book that the publishers Steidl have apparently gone to great lengths to make this new edition an exact reproduction of the first edition. It should look like a book that was published in the 1950's, so perhaps some of that is why you're unimpressed.
NY_Dan
Well-known
My wife ordered one for my January birthday -- but I made her switch it with the 10 rolls of TMY 120 she was going to give me for the holidays -- I can't wait. Steidl's my favorite book publisher. I'm not surprise some photos aren't sharply in focus -- running around with Leica LTM's 125 at f/8 -- shooting pre-focused for speed.
peter_n
Veteran
There's also the famous quote from HCB that "sharpness is a bourgeois concept" which I think still has its place. There's so much obsession with sharpness which I concede has its place, but not to the exclusion of everything else.
RichC
Well-known
People should stop moaning about trivia and pay attention to what's important in Cartier-Bresson's historic book: his vision - what he shows us in these pages, how he sequences his photographs, and what he wrote in a short but crucial essay.
I borrowed the original book from the British Library via my local public library a year ago, and it didn't even occur to me consider shortfalls the quality of the printing! It is surprisingly large though!
I borrowed the original book from the British Library via my local public library a year ago, and it didn't even occur to me consider shortfalls the quality of the printing! It is surprisingly large though!
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Received my copy yesterday. Only managed to leaf through it so far.
Yes, it's a big book, some enlargements are fuzzy and the two-page spreads more so.
But I still think it's well worth it. 🙂
Yes, it's a big book, some enlargements are fuzzy and the two-page spreads more so.
But I still think it's well worth it. 🙂
ian_watts
Ian Watts
I agree with the thrust of your point – The Decisive Moment is a key publication in the history of the "photobook" and I'm very happy that Steidl have made it affordable to own a copy – but I don't think all that many people are "moaning" about "trivia". The whole notion of publishing a facsimile (based on a second generation copy) is IMO quite interesting in itself and I'm looking forward to receiving the book soon. The accompanying essay by Clément Chéroux should also be an interesting read.
lcpr
Well-known
What William Eggleston said about the original's printing was interesting (it's in the accompanying booklet in this reissue). He said that he was first struck by the quality of the printing - deep shadows that held detail and didn't block up, with highlights that were just there but weren't just bare paper - over the actual content/form of the images. That does hold mostly true when I look at the reissue of the book (I've never seen an original though). I reckon the fuzziness is mostly down to technique (lens/camera settings/film) and circumstance: they are images on the run after all.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
In comparison with the original, which I have, it is NOT an exact copy. Copyright pages etc are different, as they probably legally must be. It does NOT include the rare "tipped in" captions booklet.
Now the important bit 😀
The reproductions are very close to my originals. A touch higher contrast and a touch of sharper in details just looks like a spot of digital showing through, the grain is sharper not the image, but remarkably close.
There are some blemishes on the originals, look like on the negatives not in print reproduction, that are gone in the new edition. For those with both look at Page 32 very top left corner some tidying up and the definite slight crop change on the edge of that frame LHS. Page 106 top image a lot of claening up done here.
I will take a shot of that to post later. Overall though you are getting so close its remarkable, much less difference than found with editions of Frank's America for example, that has had chapters written on the differences!!
Now the important bit 😀
The reproductions are very close to my originals. A touch higher contrast and a touch of sharper in details just looks like a spot of digital showing through, the grain is sharper not the image, but remarkably close.
There are some blemishes on the originals, look like on the negatives not in print reproduction, that are gone in the new edition. For those with both look at Page 32 very top left corner some tidying up and the definite slight crop change on the edge of that frame LHS. Page 106 top image a lot of claening up done here.
I will take a shot of that to post later. Overall though you are getting so close its remarkable, much less difference than found with editions of Frank's America for example, that has had chapters written on the differences!!
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Much more going on in the new edition than I thought.
These are frame 105 from old and new intended to show how "blemishes" in the original, on the wall over the woman, have been "cleaned" up. Bear in mind I only have one original so no comparisons with the copy they used but these look like print/negative blemishes not introduced during printing of my copy that have been removed to clean up the print.
GONE!!
I did notice the NEW edition looked stranger zoomed in on the screen although I had commented in my earlier post on a "digital" edge in comparison so I went closer in.
Same order OLD then NEW.
Now we are seeing some artefacts in the new edition, no wonder they looked subtly different.
Really close: OLD then NEW
You are going to need a digital copying/printing expert to say what is going on here but an exact facsimile it is not.
These are frame 105 from old and new intended to show how "blemishes" in the original, on the wall over the woman, have been "cleaned" up. Bear in mind I only have one original so no comparisons with the copy they used but these look like print/negative blemishes not introduced during printing of my copy that have been removed to clean up the print.
GONE!!
I did notice the NEW edition looked stranger zoomed in on the screen although I had commented in my earlier post on a "digital" edge in comparison so I went closer in.
Same order OLD then NEW.
Now we are seeing some artefacts in the new edition, no wonder they looked subtly different.
Really close: OLD then NEW
You are going to need a digital copying/printing expert to say what is going on here but an exact facsimile it is not.
ian_watts
Ian Watts
That's very interesting, Chris – thanks for posting the comparisons. I think any second (or third) generation copy will show artefacts and is the reason why I raised the question in this thread as to how successful Steidl have been in creating a facsimile via scanning an actual book. The problem is that, as fine as the original print job seems to have been, the printing in the original book is not a continuous tone process and scanning (and subsequently sharpening) the offset dots has the potential to look a bit "crunchy". I'm certain Steidl have done a remarkable job but I wonder if it would have been better to simply create a new edition of the book in conjunction with the HCB Foundation and work from original prints.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Ian, There was no "right" answer I don't think.
The originals were printed on paper no longer available, developed in what developer? Dodged and burned how? On what enlarger and so on ad-infinitum. I don't think starting from the negatives was going to get as close as this process but it's just not "right". The more I look the less satisfactory it appears in "feel". There are little crop changes all over the place, why? And printing "hairs" removed which to me detract from the authenticity of the analog process. If they were spotted out in the first place fine, but they are there and should IMHO have been left.
All this shouldn't stop anyone buying a copy to see what the fuss has been about all these years but i can't see the price of originals plummeting because of this issue.
The originals were printed on paper no longer available, developed in what developer? Dodged and burned how? On what enlarger and so on ad-infinitum. I don't think starting from the negatives was going to get as close as this process but it's just not "right". The more I look the less satisfactory it appears in "feel". There are little crop changes all over the place, why? And printing "hairs" removed which to me detract from the authenticity of the analog process. If they were spotted out in the first place fine, but they are there and should IMHO have been left.
All this shouldn't stop anyone buying a copy to see what the fuss has been about all these years but i can't see the price of originals plummeting because of this issue.
jsrockit
Moderator
I'm not going to pixel peep this book. I'm just happy to be able to get one for less than $100.
gdmcclintock
Well-known
I am not going to buy it. Virtually every photograph in the book has been published in other books, many of which I have. While I like HCB, I am not convinced he is as great an innovator as has been portrayed by the media for decades. There are other, less well-known photographers whose contribution is more significant in both art and photojournalism. For the latter, think of Pierre Verger. For the former, think of Brassai.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Regrettably the artefacts I see by peeping are clearly visible at normal viewing as I indicated in my first post before I peeped.
The peeping merely confirmed that something was different from the original and it does affect the pictures. Despite that I repeat what I said at the end of my second post: "All this shouldn't stop anyone buying a copy to see what the fuss has been about all these years"
sevres_babylone
Veteran
That may be, but in books, sequencing and layout are important; that's a difference between books that are designed, by or with the photographer, to be read/looked at as one entity and compilations (some of which, of course, also can be sequenced/laid out in an innovative or artistic way by the compiler). As a photography book addict, I'm looking forward to receiving mine.
jsrockit
Moderator
Got ya... you have the luxury of comparison. I'll only have the one copy.
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