rxmd
May contain traces of nut
And since, to take the analogy further, you do get a FED with a good curtain with enough patience, there is still hope for the comments as well.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
That's why people have different hobbies.
visiondr
cyclic iconoclast
So, which hobby is that; photography or camera repair?
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rxmd
May contain traces of nut
wolves3012
Veteran
The fact that something used to exist doesn't mean it has to exist now. Former, because that's what it is/was. Roughly speaking, I guess the current one is called CIS but it's certainly not the same thing!
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visiondr
cyclic iconoclast
Do those who shoot with FEDs, etc. take more than one camera body along on a shoot just in case one (or more) craps out? Or, do you take one and cross your fingers?
wolves3012
Veteran
Well said. Some of us like to tinker. There's a satisfaction in taking the "hideous contraptions" and getting them to the point where they take fine photographs. No-one has said they're perfect and all work after 50 years of neglect. Agreed, the quality isn't as high as Leica and japanese makes etc. Nor is the price. If you're not willing to tinker or pay someone to do so, then FSUs aren't really for you. Horses for courses, each to their own etc.
gdi
Veteran
So true - but it is a personal thing. Some people tinker with items other people think are crap, either for fun or out of financial necessity. I say more power to them.
For example, I have an acquaintance who is "restoring" an old Dnepr russian MC from the 60's or 70's. I can't see any reason to do it, but I am sure it will put a big smile on his face when it is finished - at least for a couple hundred miles. Eventually he'll quit riding, or buy a beemer.
BTW, who could call this hideous?
BillBingham2
Registered User
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Don't spend too much of your valuable time on the Internet!
But to answer your question, normally I take just one. It helps if you know your gear is in good shape. I wouldn't shoot a wedding with a $400 M2 I just got off eBay either, at least not without crossing my fingers.
wolves3012
Veteran
Harsh. I've never had one of mine fail in use. Of the 25 or so that I own currently, I would not feel the need to take a spare just in case. If you were taking serious photographs where there would be one chance and it mattered, or were being paid, only a fool would risk one camera, regardless of make.
jan normandale
Film is the other way
Steve M.: He Who Buys a Fed Buys Junk!”… I will NEVER buy another one of these pieces of junk ever again. “….. I'll just buy a Leica or even a clacking Bessa R variant (plastic feel, loud shutters, but they work).
________________
This is an entertaining thread
The purchase of a 60 year old FSU camera for $40 instead of a Leica is being lamented.
“I thought this out and saw I could have $800+ in an old, ugly M3”.
I can’t believe you write this stuff.
Just be glad you didn't buy one of the first M8's from Leica at a couple of thousand a copy when they launched their M8 and had a thread a day here at RFF dealing with product failures.
“My main problem w/ the Bessa cameras is the loud shutters on them”
CV's R series... are not noisy nor as bad as you describe. I've an M4-P and an R4a. Both entirely satisfactory cameras unless you develop a case of OCD about mechanical shutter noise levels. If that’s the case you should be buying a silent mode Hexar, which is still more than an FSU rangefinder.
I wouldn't have responded to your personal venting except you maligned an entire class of cameras of FSU cameras and included the Japanese CV line. Regrettable OP
________________
This is an entertaining thread
The purchase of a 60 year old FSU camera for $40 instead of a Leica is being lamented.
“I thought this out and saw I could have $800+ in an old, ugly M3”.
I can’t believe you write this stuff.
Just be glad you didn't buy one of the first M8's from Leica at a couple of thousand a copy when they launched their M8 and had a thread a day here at RFF dealing with product failures.
“My main problem w/ the Bessa cameras is the loud shutters on them”
CV's R series... are not noisy nor as bad as you describe. I've an M4-P and an R4a. Both entirely satisfactory cameras unless you develop a case of OCD about mechanical shutter noise levels. If that’s the case you should be buying a silent mode Hexar, which is still more than an FSU rangefinder.
I wouldn't have responded to your personal venting except you maligned an entire class of cameras of FSU cameras and included the Japanese CV line. Regrettable OP
visiondr
cyclic iconoclast
BillBingham2
Registered User
While my sampling might be a bit lean and may not include all of the quiet happy FSUites causing a data and conclusion to be a bit skewed I have to feel I'm a bit closer to reality across the spectrum than your 95% good hit ratio.
I can not speak for other (especially Brian S.) but I don't even have time for one hobby, let alone another of tweaking cameras. I have enough fix-it jobs with a wife, two teenage (12 & 14) sons, two homes (I'm trying to sell both), a dog (entlebuchers ROCK) and two rats. I wish I had the time to tinker, but I don't. Picking up the tools two work on FSU cameras is pretty easy. There are lots of good helpful folks on the net to help. I take pictures because I want to see them. They do not have to be perfect all the time, but when I have lost shots to my stupidity or camera problems I get really mad with myself or the camera.
FSU cameras are cool. They have taken basic building block and often improved in some unique ways that really add value. What really needs to happen is to have someone become the Youxin Ye of Feds and Kievs. His prices for Leica are wonderful.
B2 (;->
An BTW.....
Did you know that 5 out of 4 people have trouble with fractions.
Also 92.3% of all statistics are completely made up on the spot.
And the best use for a lawyer is........too off topic to go there, sorry.
wolves3012
Veteran
I don't see that claim on any of my posts. What I said is that most of the 30 or so I've bought have worked at least reasonably well as-bought. Two needed new curtains (70yo FED and a 55yo Zorki, hardly a poor failing). The rest needed some servicing but none was actually broken. A sweeping statement that they are all junk was made, something I disagree with. You seem decry those of us who choose to bring them back to life, based on your own values of time etc. Hardly a rational argument. If I choose to repair them, why should I not do so? If I enjoy the simplicity and repairability of them, is that wrong of me? If I enjoy taking pictures with such cameras, should I desist? Nowhere have I claimed that it's wrong to use a Bessa, Leica or whatever else, nor has anyone else. Why can we not agree to have different opinions?
Are the remaining 7.8% partially made up on the spot then? 100% of people who make such jokes have no understanding of statistics.
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ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
I take extra bodies because I have so many.
One has yet to 'crap' out on me. And yes, I've spent more than a few hours repairing them. And the hours spent were worth it, considering that my $50 Barnack copy now works like a $250 Barnack original. And I also have Barnack originals and the more expensive Barnack copies. They've crapped out too.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
My everyday user is a Fed 1 with a Jupiter 8 that I bought from Yuri. I like the experience of working with a purely mechanical rangefinder camera and black and white film but won't pay the collector prices for Leicas. The Fed may quit tomorrow, as I might expect with any 57 year old piece of equipment but, if I lose it or it craps out, I'm out 50 bucks instead of a thousand +.
Taken with my Fed
Was that 'taken' with a Fed ... or 'done' with a Fed?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Remember all Ruben's endless threads about making the Kiev into the perfect camera ... I miss those and him too actually!
Moved onto micro 4/3 and frequenting other forums supposedly?
If you read this ... Hi Ruben, we miss you!
Moved onto micro 4/3 and frequenting other forums supposedly?
If you read this ... Hi Ruben, we miss you!
BillBingham2
Registered User
I'm so sorry I was not clear, please allow me to restate my perspective. FSU cameras and glass (e.g. FED, Kiev) are not junk. They present a wonderful opportunity for extend photography to users who could not otherwise enjoy that type (manual control, interchangeable lenses) of photography.
I am impressed with you patience, focus (pardon the pun) and skills. I tried to be there with you too. I wanted to use my beautiful FED 2, I wanted my Kievs to work. For me I was not a lucky, spent money on getting them fixed and they came back still not complete. The guy who purchased my FED system put more money into getting it fixed for something I did not know it had and it still was not working.
My frustration is that people who want interchangeable lens rangefinders and can not afford the big bucks go FSU. Lots of them (read no percentage) get burned and never come back. Perhaps what the FSU lovers need to do is set up like a halfway house program. Buy some FSU stuff, test it, tweak it, retest them and sell them for a small markup. You could help the folks who can not afford the expensive cameras not get frustrated as I have been.
They present a wonderful opportunity for people who are lucky enough (read I WISH I WAS IN THIS CATEGORY) to have the time to tinker with cameras with a great camera. Be it FSU, Leica, Canon or Nikon, I am all behind the idea of reusing of already built glass and cameras. It's very "Green" you know. So I guess that makes us all "Greenies" before it was cool to be green.
We can, but I find the while I might be all gloom and doom awaits for purchasers, your perspective of sunshine and roses is equally skewed to the edges of the bell curve that is reality.
WRONG. I've had a few classes in college in statistics. Half of one of my masters classes was all statistics. Found out that on my list of hate stuff general accounting and installing duct work for HVAC systems is higher than stats. While I'm not a UofC MBA (very numbers oriented program) I can do OK and perhaps more importantly, I know who to go and ask for help when I need it.
B2 (;->
FallisPhoto
Veteran
1) Fifteen seperate states have split off from the Soviet Union as of 1991 and are no longer parts of it. This would include the states where many of the cameras mentioned here were made. Some, if not all, of these newly independent states are not recognized by NATO or the UN as countries yet, and some are still fighting for their independence, like Chechnya and Georgia, so I'm not sure what their status is. For the sake of convenience, they are collectively called FSU states. Anyway, many of the cameras in question here were not made inside the borders of the current Soviet Union, which used to be a hell of a lot bigger than it is now.
2) Yes, I'm sure one can buy current Soviet Union cameras and other gear, but I'm not sure what brands are currently produced there.
3) You're the one who mentioned Leica, I didn't. Let's talk Hasselblad H3Ds though. I can make enlargements that are 4x5 feet from film shot in a 6X9 vintage rangefinder with a halfway decent Skopar, Heliar, Xenar or Tessar lens, without any significant distortion or loss of resolution, provided I use an ultra-high resolution film in it. The Hasselblad H3D can only get up to 3x4 feet. As for Leica, if you are determined to bring Leica into it, yes, a Kiev 88 or a Moskva 5, that has been overhauled and that works right, can shoot photos that are of significantly better quality, simply because the negative is bigger, and they can do it at about a tenth of the cost.