jarski
Veteran
I recently bought new iPhone and noticed its not taking photos anymore in JPEG, but HEIC. Seems that iPhones have been doing this a while now. This made me think few things:
- Will JPEG be "orphaned" in longer run? Risk of loosing photos if software support ends at some point?
- Possible format chaos in some point? JPEG has been a sort of standard for a long while now, and forced everything to move same direction, which has been a good thing (IMO).
- Should I consider converting my photos to HEIC at some point? Looks like space savings would be considerable (important with cloud storage)
About this iPhone purchase, my previous was version 4. Its been refreshing to return to Appleland after long break abroad
- Will JPEG be "orphaned" in longer run? Risk of loosing photos if software support ends at some point?
- Possible format chaos in some point? JPEG has been a sort of standard for a long while now, and forced everything to move same direction, which has been a good thing (IMO).
- Should I consider converting my photos to HEIC at some point? Looks like space savings would be considerable (important with cloud storage)
About this iPhone purchase, my previous was version 4. Its been refreshing to return to Appleland after long break abroad
aizan
Veteran
You'll have to monitor the situation and act accordingly. JPEG is old, and it's gradually being supplanted by HEIF as the standard lossy image format. However, that's different from being orphaned, which is unlikely for a good long while yet. That doesn't mean you won't ever have to convert them to HEIF at some point (probably for convenience), so keep an eye on it. For preservation purposes, it's always better to keep the larger file because data corruption happens.
Oscuro
He's French, I'm Italian.
There is a switch in SETTINGS > CAMERA > FORMATS which will allow you to select HEIC or JPEG.
Ciao!
Mme. O
Ciao!
Mme. O
The problem with HEIC is managing the associated XML file and the slower rendering in many apps. PITA but if you you think of it has a semi-RAW file then it's similar.
jarski
Veteran
jarski
Veteran
tried to convert JPEG from my previous phone to HEIC. space saving is quite nice, 5mb file converted to 2mb with same resolution
Lightroom 6.14 don't seem to support HEIC, not nice
Lightroom 6.14 don't seem to support HEIC, not nice
benlees
Well-known
HEIC is not well supported yet in terms of getting prints, as far as I'm aware. I don't think its possible to convert to JPEG in phone if the original is HEIC. If I'm wrong someone let me know!
jarski
Veteran
its not difficult todo in computer, but in phone, dont have an answer. chat apps must be doing it on the fly when sharing a HEIC in WhatsApp etc., because the other person might be using Android phone.
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
How to share Jpegs from iPhone, not HEICs
https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/iphone/share-jpeg-heic-3693232/
https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/iphone/share-jpeg-heic-3693232/
Godfrey
somewhat colored
If you want JPEGs, use Settings to set the Camera to output "Most compatible".
If you've got a bunch of HEIF but need them to be JPEG for compatibility, I think there's some app that will do this on the iPhone/iPad but I forget what it's called. I know that if I open an HEIF file in SnapSeed and then export it, I get a JPEG.
If you've got a lot of HEIF files and run a macOS desktop/laptop system, shift the files to that and use Automator: create a little app to convert them from HEIF to JPEG. Very fast and very efficient. I've included a simple Automator script image to do this: Set that up in Automator and save as an app. Then, when you need to convert image format, just drop the HEIF files you want to convert onto the app and they'll be JPEGs in an instant.
Here's a good article on HEIF: https://iso.500px.com/heif-first-nail-jpegs-coffin/
Essentially, the win for users is that HEIF allows storing sequences of photos where JPEG can only store one photo at a time per file. This enables use of the Live Photo feature and other things on the iPhone. The downside is compatibility with all the apps out there that are geared to handling JPEG files, at which point conversion from HEIF to JPEG is needed but pretty easy to accomplish.
I doubt that JPEG is going away, but what becomes "the standard" in use depends on how popular the features that HEIF supports becomes. Luckily there's no big problem converting from HEIF to JPEG so use whichever format makes sense for what you're doing.
Oh yes: Lightroom Classic v9.3 supports HEIF. I don't know when it was added to the LR support, but this is the version of LR I'm using at present. It's NOT supported in LR 6.14.
G
If you've got a bunch of HEIF but need them to be JPEG for compatibility, I think there's some app that will do this on the iPhone/iPad but I forget what it's called. I know that if I open an HEIF file in SnapSeed and then export it, I get a JPEG.
If you've got a lot of HEIF files and run a macOS desktop/laptop system, shift the files to that and use Automator: create a little app to convert them from HEIF to JPEG. Very fast and very efficient. I've included a simple Automator script image to do this: Set that up in Automator and save as an app. Then, when you need to convert image format, just drop the HEIF files you want to convert onto the app and they'll be JPEGs in an instant.
Here's a good article on HEIF: https://iso.500px.com/heif-first-nail-jpegs-coffin/
Essentially, the win for users is that HEIF allows storing sequences of photos where JPEG can only store one photo at a time per file. This enables use of the Live Photo feature and other things on the iPhone. The downside is compatibility with all the apps out there that are geared to handling JPEG files, at which point conversion from HEIF to JPEG is needed but pretty easy to accomplish.
I doubt that JPEG is going away, but what becomes "the standard" in use depends on how popular the features that HEIF supports becomes. Luckily there's no big problem converting from HEIF to JPEG so use whichever format makes sense for what you're doing.
Oh yes: Lightroom Classic v9.3 supports HEIF. I don't know when it was added to the LR support, but this is the version of LR I'm using at present. It's NOT supported in LR 6.14.
G
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benlees
Well-known
Yes, using a computer it is simple enough. Beware (some of) those 3rd party apps: in the fine print you give them permission to use your photos if you use their services...
twvancamp
Thom
Wonderful! Thank you!
RichC
Well-known
A serious downside to HEIC is that it's highly patented, and cannot be used in software without permission and paying for a licence. JPEG is patent- and licence-free. The huge number of patents (over 7000) is bound to lead to legal problems for HEIC in the future with patent sharks. Apple helped develop it, so they're pushing for adoption, but my personal view is that it won't gain much traction, and that JPEG will remain among the most widely used image formats fir a long time yet.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
It's High Efficiency Image Format (HEIF) not HEIC. A nit for sure...
As the article I pointed to with a link explains, it's an outgrowth of the High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC aka H.265) effort and derives most of its patents and license requirements from that. Other licensed standards (like Universal Serial Bus (USB) from Intel and FireWire (aka IEEE 1394)) have proved successful with very broad/wide adoption across the industries so I wouldn't consider that such a serious problem. JPEG format (a product of the Joint Photographic Experts Group in 1992) is also based on work that dates back to 1972, the standard cites several patent usages, and has seen patent challenges along the way as well.
For sure, JPEG will remain a standard for a long time to come, and HEVC/HEIF are newcomers to the market. Only time will tell which of these things become a new standard and how broadly it will be adopted. Apple has long been at the innovation forefront on things like this—first manufacturer to drop classic RS232 serial in favor of USB, first manufacturer to implement and include FireWire, etc etc—and for sure not all these things prove to remain "standards" beyond some stretch of years in use.
Floppy disks were the standard storage for a decade and some ... when was the last time you used one?
G
As the article I pointed to with a link explains, it's an outgrowth of the High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC aka H.265) effort and derives most of its patents and license requirements from that. Other licensed standards (like Universal Serial Bus (USB) from Intel and FireWire (aka IEEE 1394)) have proved successful with very broad/wide adoption across the industries so I wouldn't consider that such a serious problem. JPEG format (a product of the Joint Photographic Experts Group in 1992) is also based on work that dates back to 1972, the standard cites several patent usages, and has seen patent challenges along the way as well.
For sure, JPEG will remain a standard for a long time to come, and HEVC/HEIF are newcomers to the market. Only time will tell which of these things become a new standard and how broadly it will be adopted. Apple has long been at the innovation forefront on things like this—first manufacturer to drop classic RS232 serial in favor of USB, first manufacturer to implement and include FireWire, etc etc—and for sure not all these things prove to remain "standards" beyond some stretch of years in use.
Floppy disks were the standard storage for a decade and some ... when was the last time you used one?
G
benlees
Well-known
Some research. The phone will convert to JPEG if shared with incompatible devices, like if you send a photo to a friend using Android.
Settings>photos>automatic
jarski
Veteran
but why the files in iPhone have extension .heic?
am still on unsure what todo now. I kind off stumbled into this new format by accident, did a week long trip and shot everything in HEIF. now I realize that if I wanted to open them in Lightroom, it isn't possible anymore (in version 6 that I want to stay in). on the other hand new format seems promising and space savings are quite nice. Canon seems also beginning to support it, as an alternative to JPEG.
RichC
Well-known
It's High Efficiency Image Format (HEIF) not HEIC. A nit for sure...
but why the files in iPhone have extension .heic?
...[This] new format seems promising and space savings are quite nice. Canon seems also beginning to support it, as an alternative to JPEG.
HEIC is Apple's adaptation of HEIF (why does Apple always have to be different - the point of a standard format is not to change it!).
My concern remains the patent jungle associated with this new format, and that it cannot be used in software without paying for a licence. Large companies can afford this, and pay for lawyers to deal with the patent trolls that will doubtless come out of the woodwork in future. But smaller companies will be put off.
In contrast, the JPEG format is free to use and has no existing patents (despite attempts by some US patent trolls to extort money in the past), so programmers, whether massive companies or one person, used it without worrying having to pay or worry about being sued - partly the reason why it's so popular.
Attempts have been made to replace the JPEG format, such as by JPEG 2000, which haven't gained traction. The parent organisation of both of these formats is developing a new variant, JPEG XL, which has all the advantages of HEIF without the patent/licence disadvantages: like JPEG, it will be a worldwide standard and free to use.
So, I personally hope HEIF will fail, and that JPEG XL will eventually become as common as JPEG is now.
Standards need to be free for anyone to use and implement across the globe. Adobe owns the DNG raw format, but the reason it endures is because Adobe's licence allows free use.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Worry about it all you want, it doesn't matter. If the format has value to manufacturers, software developers, and users, it will be adopted. Remember that every USB device implies a tithe paid to Intel for the license to use it. Same for so many other things. That's why the instruction manual for nearly any device or software you buy has a thick page or two of legalese articulating all the patents, licenses, etc, used in the making of whatever the thing is. All part of the very litigious world of the modern age. Very little of it ever affects an end user to any significant degree.
Various improvements to the JPEG format specification have been attempted, several times. None of them have stuck as yet, because none of them have proven to add significant value to the base format specification as yet, and nearly all imply some amount of incompatibility with existing JPEG using apps. As I said, time will tell.
The format specification is High Efficiency Image Format (HEIF). I suspect Apple is using .HEIC to indicate "high efficiency image, compressed" or something like that. Weird twists on the file extension happen across the board ... Like JPEG being output as .jpeg, .jpg, .jfif; Tagged Image File Format being output as .tif and .tiff; QuickTime movies using .moov, .mov; MPEG4 using .mp4 or .m4p, etc etc. As long as the filename extension is interpreted correctly by the apps that are looking for a particular format specification, it doesn't matter.
G
Various improvements to the JPEG format specification have been attempted, several times. None of them have stuck as yet, because none of them have proven to add significant value to the base format specification as yet, and nearly all imply some amount of incompatibility with existing JPEG using apps. As I said, time will tell.
The format specification is High Efficiency Image Format (HEIF). I suspect Apple is using .HEIC to indicate "high efficiency image, compressed" or something like that. Weird twists on the file extension happen across the board ... Like JPEG being output as .jpeg, .jpg, .jfif; Tagged Image File Format being output as .tif and .tiff; QuickTime movies using .moov, .mov; MPEG4 using .mp4 or .m4p, etc etc. As long as the filename extension is interpreted correctly by the apps that are looking for a particular format specification, it doesn't matter.
G
