Heliar, Skopar, Ultron, Nokton Oh My!!!

[Max Power]

Hey all,
Believe it or not, my Zorki 4 with its 1:1 VF/RF has led me to discover the joys of RF photography. Lately I've been looking at Stephen Gandy's website and have decided that in the next couple of months I will likely fork over the $$$ necessary for an R3A and a 50 1.5 Nokton.

What I don't understand, however, is what all of the 'proper names' of the lenses are. What do the names Heliar, Skopar, Ultron, and Nokton actually mean? 😕

Thanks,
Kent

 

[raid]

Heliar, Skopar, Ultron, and Nokton ==> Each refers to a level to which your bank account will drop ;-)

 

[fgianni]

Hey all,
Believe it or not, my Zorki 4 with its 1:1 VF/RF has led me to discover the joys of RF photography. Lately I've been looking at Stephen Gandy's website and have decided that in the next couple of months I will likely fork over the $$$ necessary for an R3A and a 50 1.5 Nokton.

What I don't understand, however, is what all of the 'proper names' of the lenses are. What do the names Heliar, Skopar, Ultron, and Nokton actually mean? 😕

Thanks,
Kent

You forgot Apo Lanthar and the modern one is not even Lanthar at all.

 

[bmattock]

Every manufacturer has a different proprietary name for their family of lenses. Generally, they will indicate the lens design - for example, a 'tessar' design, which will have different characteristics from a 'gauss' design and so on. Every lens maker has a 'tessar' design, but they all call it something else. You can usually find a block design somewhere or find someone who will tell you, for example, that a "Heliar" is really a "tessar" lens (I'm just using that as an example, I can't recall if it is true or not). If you understand the characteristics of the major lens designs, you then have some kind of idea what you can expect your lens to do.

There is much to delve into if you're into learning more about lens design - much more than can be presented here.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[fgianni]

I thought the Skopar was a tessar design, the Vaskar a Triplet, but I could be wrong, don't remember the others.

 

[bmattock]

I thought the Skopar was a tessar design, the Vaskar a Triplet, but I could be wrong, don't remember the others.

You're probably right, I could not remember and am in the middle of souping some film, so really can't look it up right now. Anyway, point being that the lens names are references to design types - hopefully I'm right on that, anyway.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[celluloidprop]

In this case, I don't believe any of them mean anything outside of branding. Noktons are the fastest Voigtlander lenses, then Color-Skopars, with a few Ultrons in between (or only one - the 35/1.7, right?), for the normal lengths. Wide-angle and telephoto lenses have their own names that link back to old naming conventions for the original Voigtlander lines.

 

[f/stopblues]

You know that R3A doesn't have 50mm framelines, right? The R2A does, but it's not 1:1. There's some great 40mm's out there if you want to go that route, which the R3A has framelines for.

 

[Bertram2]

Hey all,
What I don't understand, however, is what all of the 'proper names' of the lenses are. What do the names Heliar, Skopar, Ultron, and Nokton actually mean? 😕
Thanks,
Kent

These names are the old German Voigtländer lens names, which do nor stand for a certain standard design tho, as for example the Zeiss name Tessar stands for, which is therefore used to cargeorize a lens as a "Tessar type".

Bertram

 

[rover]

The R3a has 50mm framelines, but it lacks 35mm framelines. In place of 35 it has 40mm framelines which sit very close to the edge of the frame.

 

[John]

As Bill and others have pointed out the lens names signify the physical design of the lens, taking into account that two almost identical lenses from two different manufacturers will have differing names. They can also be described by their type. A Tessar or Planar or Sonnar type lens can be called Tessar, Planar, and Sonnar by Carl Zeiss and their licensees. Other companies like Nikon or Canon will copy the design with their own improvements. They choose not to name their designs. Leica will have different designs they believe do a better job and give them different names such as, Elmar, Summicron, Summillux, Elmarit.
By design we are talking about the juxtaposition of the glass elements, their shape, and the interfaces whether air or cemented. Convex, concave, doubles, cemented, etc.
I am not sure how the Voigtlander designs are different than Zeiss and Leica. Generally designers have found the Gauss design to be easier to work with or at least start out with. A Gauss design is like a mirror image of itself with an even number of elements. A lot of Japanese SLR designs started out as Gauss and they tweaked them over time.
Hopefully someone a little more knowledgeable will add their take on this. 🙂

 

[f/stopblues]

I stand corrected.. oops! Go forth, my son, enjoy the 50mm framelines!

 

[Max Power]

Wow,
You bunch are really great!
Thanks for the answers...Now if I can just convince my wife that I really need an R3A, I'll be good to go!

The trick is that I'll probably have to give up a few cameras to finance the endeavour!!!

Cheers,
Kent

 

[fgianni]

Ok , I found the following reference


"From the Focal Press Bessa Guide, London 1955:
"The Vaskar is athree-lens air-apaced anastigmat.... The Voigtar......and the Helomar...are of similar constriction to the Vaskar...
The Color-Skopar is a three-component lens with a cemented back element; that is, an unsymmetric anastigmat consisting of four lenses with six glass-to-air surfaces.... The Skopar...is of similar construction...
The Color-Heliar is a three-component anastigmat with cemented front and back elements. It consist in all of five lenses with six glass-to air surfaces.... The Heliar....is of similar construction...
The Apo-Lanthar is a three component lens with cemented front and back elements consisting in all of five lenses with six glass-to-air surfaces..... This most modern lens shows full correction in the three main colours of the spectrum...."
So the Apo-Lanthar is of the Heliar type, Voigtländers Tessar types were named Skopar, and the Vaskar, Voigtar, and Helomar were triplets.
"

Here is a link to the full discussion.

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=003Rd1&tag=

 

[Huck Finn]

Hey all,
Believe it or not, my Zorki 4 with its 1:1 VF/RF has led me to discover the joys of RF photography. Lately I've been looking at Stephen Gandy's website and have decided that in the next couple of months I will likely fork over the $$$ necessary for an R3A and a 50 1.5 Nokton.

What I don't understand, however, is what all of the 'proper names' of the lenses are. What do the names Heliar, Skopar, Ultron, and Nokton actually mean? 😕

Thanks,
Kent

In the late '90s, Cosina hit the market place with a new camera & lenses, which they issued under the name of "Voigtlander" - an old & revered German camera manufacturer which went defunct in the '70s. They did this strictly for marketing reasons, apparently feeling that their new product line would be better received under this name than under their own "Cosina" label.

The lens names are from a time when camera companies named their lenses according to the design used for the lens. However, Cosina uses these names for marketing reasons as well - to evoke the feeling of the old rangefinder era. Modern Cosina Voigtlander lens designs have nothing to do with the original designs for which they are named in most cases.