GMOG
Well-known
I'd like to pick your brains on grease options for helicals. I've used three different greases with mostly positive results.
I find that the braking resistance felt is a function of the grease's viscosity combined with the overall surface area of the helicals. Thicker greases work better in simple helicals, like the single ones found in the old Elmars, the 5cm and 3.5cm. For these I've used a grease known as "Fomblin". It's standard issue in the world of watches, used for lubing the rubber gaskets that seal the cases from dirt and water. I think this stuff is also used in electron microscopes for greasing of gaskets and sliding assemblies. For lenses with dual helicals and more surface area (like my old Nikkors) this grease gives too much of a damping effect, making it difficult to focus the lens.
For these more complex lenses I have experimented with two greases I got from Japan (eBay), and the one that seems best for these is the thinner grease (the #30). But there is a problem I am having with this particular grease that I don't quite understand. It works well in my old NIkkors, but it doesn't work well when used in my dual-helical Leitz lenses. The main difference between these lenses is the material used to make the helicals. It's aluminum in the Nikkors, and brass (mostly) in the Leitzes.
This is the grease I'm referring to:
So far I've used this grease when servicing two Summicron 50s, a "Rigid" and a Dual-Range. And both exhibit the same problem. The grease seems to have a multi-viscosity component to it that is working against me. When I pick up either of these lenses and first turn the focusing it goes as smooth as silk. But after I give the ring a few turns the resistance I feel changes, becoming a little stiffer, a little "grabby" when using light pressure. The problem here is when fine tuning focus. I have to use increased pressure to make the ring turn, and when it releases it often goes further than I want it to. The back and forth wastes time. This same grease does not behave like this in the Nikkors.
I'm certain that I've got the Leitz helicals as clean as they can be. Below are images taken when working on the DR (not the best focus, sorry):
I'm thinking that I need to use a different grease for these lenses, but I'm not sure which one. Based on your experiences what grease would you recommend? Does brass vs aluminum really make a difference?
Thanks for your time!
I find that the braking resistance felt is a function of the grease's viscosity combined with the overall surface area of the helicals. Thicker greases work better in simple helicals, like the single ones found in the old Elmars, the 5cm and 3.5cm. For these I've used a grease known as "Fomblin". It's standard issue in the world of watches, used for lubing the rubber gaskets that seal the cases from dirt and water. I think this stuff is also used in electron microscopes for greasing of gaskets and sliding assemblies. For lenses with dual helicals and more surface area (like my old Nikkors) this grease gives too much of a damping effect, making it difficult to focus the lens.
For these more complex lenses I have experimented with two greases I got from Japan (eBay), and the one that seems best for these is the thinner grease (the #30). But there is a problem I am having with this particular grease that I don't quite understand. It works well in my old NIkkors, but it doesn't work well when used in my dual-helical Leitz lenses. The main difference between these lenses is the material used to make the helicals. It's aluminum in the Nikkors, and brass (mostly) in the Leitzes.
This is the grease I'm referring to:
Helicoid Grease for Camera lens #30 15ml Made in Japan | eBay
Use best Helical Grease for your lens! Helical Grease are manufactured in Japan. 100% Made in Japan Degree of viscosity : # 30.
www.ebay.com
So far I've used this grease when servicing two Summicron 50s, a "Rigid" and a Dual-Range. And both exhibit the same problem. The grease seems to have a multi-viscosity component to it that is working against me. When I pick up either of these lenses and first turn the focusing it goes as smooth as silk. But after I give the ring a few turns the resistance I feel changes, becoming a little stiffer, a little "grabby" when using light pressure. The problem here is when fine tuning focus. I have to use increased pressure to make the ring turn, and when it releases it often goes further than I want it to. The back and forth wastes time. This same grease does not behave like this in the Nikkors.
I'm certain that I've got the Leitz helicals as clean as they can be. Below are images taken when working on the DR (not the best focus, sorry):
I'm thinking that I need to use a different grease for these lenses, but I'm not sure which one. Based on your experiences what grease would you recommend? Does brass vs aluminum really make a difference?
Thanks for your time!
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
What comes to mind when speaking of grease is HOW much grease is enough...
I recall a topic of greasing the bearings in an electrical motor...22.5 to 40 HP used in printing presses.
It was said that one could over grease and cause drag/load on the motor...
So, how much grease do these parts need...how much is enough...???
I've serviced my Micro-Nikkor 55mm 2.8 lens due to a very stiff focusing ring...its better but still not buttery smooth.
I even took it apart several times trying to find the right (minimal) amount of grease to get it smoother...and there's definitely a difference in which direction you're focusing...
I used Helimax-XP Optical & Instrument Helicoil Grease w/Lithium & PTFE
I recall a topic of greasing the bearings in an electrical motor...22.5 to 40 HP used in printing presses.
It was said that one could over grease and cause drag/load on the motor...
So, how much grease do these parts need...how much is enough...???
I've serviced my Micro-Nikkor 55mm 2.8 lens due to a very stiff focusing ring...its better but still not buttery smooth.
I even took it apart several times trying to find the right (minimal) amount of grease to get it smoother...and there's definitely a difference in which direction you're focusing...
I used Helimax-XP Optical & Instrument Helicoil Grease w/Lithium & PTFE
GMOG
Well-known
Thanks for the feedback nikon_sam. I, too, have noticed that the amount of grease makes a difference. How I've approached application is by starting with less and working up to the point it feels like I've got the best results. I have stopped and cleaned out the helicals again when I think I've gone too far. Hopefully this method is adequate.
I looked up the Helimax-XP grease you use, and see that its NLGI rating is "soft". I prefer a little more damping than other folks do, but only to a point. It's better to err on the side of less damping than more. How easy/hard is it to move the Micro-Nikkor's focus ring with a fingertip?
Miles.
Beamsplitter
A very trusted repair tech I’ve worked with for years uses this stuff:
Hcompton79
Established
Based on Chris Sherlock's recommendation, I have also been using Helimax XP for a few years. I believe it's a NLGI #1 grease, so it may provide a bit more damping than some people prefer, however I have found that the amount of grease used will be much more critical in how much resistance is encountered than small variations in viscosity. I have not noticed an appreciable difference in brass vs aluminum helicals when using Helimax XP.
If I encounter a helical that focuses too stiffly even when greased or has a rough spot when focusing, I clean the grease off and use a fine grit metal polish (I prefer Mother's mag and aluminum polish) and work it into the helical turning it back and forth a few times. The helical is then cleaned in the ultrasonic cleaner and re-greased. This normally substantially improves stiff helicals.
If I encounter a helical that focuses too stiffly even when greased or has a rough spot when focusing, I clean the grease off and use a fine grit metal polish (I prefer Mother's mag and aluminum polish) and work it into the helical turning it back and forth a few times. The helical is then cleaned in the ultrasonic cleaner and re-greased. This normally substantially improves stiff helicals.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Using just a fingertip its very hard to turn compared to my Nikkor 50mm 1.4 lens...
There is more resistance focusing towards infinity...I might go as far to say the temperature of the lens (warm vs cold) is a factor in this too...
When researching this lens and also when looking to buy one, many ebay listings mentioned stiff focusing as an issue with this lens.
JeffS7444
Well-known
Sometimes I need to add a little bit of molybdenum (Molykote GN) to the helicoid grease. Not much, just enough that the mixture has a tinge of gray to it. My old collapsible Summicron was one such lens which really seemed to need it. But I’d refrain from using pure Molykote, since it can stain hands and clothing.
GMOG
Well-known
Thanks for the reply. It sounds about like I would expect, except for the variations in resistance present in your particular lens. I think lot of old Nikkors are fingertip easy because the lubes are long gone. In my experience cleaning the helicals out and replacing the grease restores the damping force that was there when they were new. But I wasn't alive or I was very young when most of my pre-AI Nikkor lenses were new, so I don't really know what they felt like back then.
I prefer a little more damping than most people do. I like a lens that is less likely to be bumped out of focus after I've set the distance. But still, the action needs to be easy enough to enable efficient focusing. The elusive middle ground!
Looks like I'm going to give that Helimax-XP grease a go in the Summicron 50s. I also have a Summaron 35/2.8 in LTM mount that needs attention. And a few more Nikkors!
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GMOG
Well-known
Thank you for your reply. This is helpful information. I'll keep it in mind.
GMOG
Well-known
How did it feel without the Molykote mixed in?
JeffS7444
Well-known
But it also makes the lens a great buy for bargain hunters willing to get their fingers greasy! Impression that I got was that Nikon used a light grease for the 50/2.8 AI-S Micro, which didn’t age so well. I hadn’t started using JHT #30 then, so I used a light clear general-purpose grease. And it has worked fine, despite (or because?) I used a lot less grease than the factory did.
JeffS7444
Well-known
IIRC, like metal rubbing on metal, rather than gliding on a layer of grease.
GMOG
Well-known
Sounds like the Molykote really makes a difference.
GMOG
Well-known
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'll report after I've got the Summicron 50s feeling like they should.
GMOG
Well-known
Here's a follow-up on the grease issue. I found that a thicker grease solved the stiff, grabbing problem described above. I used a blend of the two greases I have, an approximately 50/50 ratio of the thicker and thinner stuff. Before applying it to the lens I mixed the two and let it sit for a month or so to look for separation and found none. So far so good.
Thanks again for your replies.
Thanks again for your replies.
aw614
Established
Hmm I might need to try a blend on my Nokton Classic 40mm that I bought off another board in need of repair. It had stiff focusing issues which is why I got it cheap
The first grease that I've used on other lenses worked great, but on the Nokton still did not smoothen the focusing helicoid (It was better, but still rough). Helimax-XP made feel about 80% of the way there though...
The first grease that I've used on other lenses worked great, but on the Nokton still did not smoothen the focusing helicoid (It was better, but still rough). Helimax-XP made feel about 80% of the way there though...
zeitz
Established
I have used Helimax-XP for years. Apply evenly and then try to wipe it all off with a clean cloth. What is left after wiping is the amount that is actually needed. The amount required is minuscule even with big Astro Berlin Fernbildlinse lenses. If you use some other grease, make sure it is approved for optical applications.
I have had to clean many lenses because they had way too much grease. If you grease a lens and come back a week later finding it somewhat stiff, you have too much grease.
I have had to clean many lenses because they had way too much grease. If you grease a lens and come back a week later finding it somewhat stiff, you have too much grease.
Ororaro
Well-known
Sometimes all you need is a good clean, sanding of the helicoids 600 grit, clean again, and lube.
Sanding is basically a few turns, evens out the imperfections. Can do wonders.
Sanding is basically a few turns, evens out the imperfections. Can do wonders.
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
Strangely I've had good luck with cotton earbuds and a slight drop of 3 in 1 oil rubbed into the helicoils on a few of the
medium format lenses I've played with .It's only been a couple of years , but there's no apparent oil migration . YMMV !
medium format lenses I've played with .It's only been a couple of years , but there's no apparent oil migration . YMMV !