Help a New Bronica EC Owner Here :)

[jwicaksana]

I posted this in the flickr Bronica group, and I want to hear something from you guys here in RFF.

A new EC owner here. Certainly a beautiful camera, very well built and unique design made me fall in love. I bought it from a friend who let me try it to see if I like it. However during two days of my ownership, it behaves rather oddly. I was hoping you fine Bronica folks in this group might help me address the following issues:

1. Sometimes the shutter won't fire, as if the darkslide is still in front of the film plane, whereas I am sure it is stored in the rear storage. This happens in a series of shooting/shutter releases. This happens with film loaded (dial position A for single exposure) and with no film loaded (dial position D for double exposure/testing purpose)

2. Sometimes the mirror would flip up for exposure, but won't return back down. Gentle touch on the mirror brings it back (and what a sheer force it is, much like alligator's jaw I think!)

Problem number 1 happen a lot more often than number 2. Battery is new, and the darkslide is out of the way (not in the film plane)
I have downloaded and studied carefully the manual, so I'm fairly sure I did things correctly.

Could this be signs of electronic shutter starts getting old, or something else? Is this an easy fix? Needless to say I fell in love with the camera already, but if this is a serious problem my friend would not mind buying it back (what a great friend he is)

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Here's the said camera, old pic from the seller as I am currently running digital-less

 

[rhl-oregon]

Basically sounds like it needs a trip to Frank Marshman in Virginia for a cla. He's mentioned elsewhere on the site under Bronica threads. I have an S that has similar hangups, plus a missing shutter release. It's not a fixit priority, but Frank said he could/would when I'm ready.

 

[jwicaksana]

Basically sounds like it needs a trip to Frank Marshman in Virginia for a cla. He's mentioned elsewhere on the site under Bronica threads. I have an S that has similar hangups, plus a missing shutter release. It's not a fixit priority, but Frank said he could/would when I'm ready.

Hi Robert, thanks for your response. So this is something a normal CLA will fix? I am located in Jakarta, Indonesia, so sending it to VA for a CLA is not feasible, sadly.

 

[rhl-oregon]

Oops, that changes things. Perhaps Frank would have an idea who might service ec in that part of the world. He's easy to find via google and prompt to respond to email.

Simple alternative: return it to your friend and seek a newer version in Bronica sq or gs, or go for 645 in ETRS, Mamiya, Contax--or spring for a functional Hasselblad. Good luck.

 

[Mystyler]

Hi Jonathan,
I haven't quite had any of the problems you mention with my EC (yet!) but it was mentioned to me by a camera techy that any dirt or other foreign objects can get lodged in the mirror tracks and prevent the mirror from returning after the camera has been fired. It can't hurt to run some compressed air through there to try to blow out any dirt. If that doesn't work I believe the whole assembly needs to be taken out and cleaned. Not a big deal, just a pain in the arse!

As for the camera not firing, does the film advance just keep turning or does it actually cock the shutter and stop, just without firing? I did have a problem once with mine and I think it may have been caused by improper loading, where I needed to wind on the film advance a lot more than normal to cock the shutter. Is your problem similar to setting the camera to "A" with no film and trying to cock the shutter (film advance just keeps turning), or something completely different? I have found that rushing with film loading is not something the EC likes, as you inevitably stuff it up, even just slightly. This doesn't explain to me why it has a problem in "D" with no film unless...any problem cocking the shutter and firing with the film magazine (or back, or whatever) removed? Watch your fingers!!

Of course your problem may be something else unrelated, but I'd like to see you rule these things out!! :angel:

 

[Maiku]

Check the double exposure lever on the same and just under the lever for 120 or 220 film. If the lever is switch to single exposure with no film the camera will not fire. Perhaps the lever is moving. Also, confirm the battery is GOOD. Insert a new battery! Good luck.

 

[jwicaksana]

Oops, that changes things. Perhaps Frank would have an idea who might service ec in that part of the world. He's easy to find via google and prompt to respond to email.

Simple alternative: return it to your friend and seek a newer version in Bronica sq or gs, or go for 645 in ETRS, Mamiya, Contax--or spring for a functional Hasselblad. Good luck.

Thank you, Robert. No specialist around here, but my usual guy is good with most common cameras so I will get in touch with him. Cheers!

Hi Jonathan,
I haven't quite had any of the problems you mention with my EC (yet!) but it was mentioned to me by a camera techy that any dirt or other foreign objects can get lodged in the mirror tracks and prevent the mirror from returning after the camera has been fired. It can't hurt to run some compressed air through there to try to blow out any dirt. If that doesn't work I believe the whole assembly needs to be taken out and cleaned. Not a big deal, just a pain in the arse!

As for the camera not firing, does the film advance just keep turning or does it actually cock the shutter and stop, just without firing? I did have a problem once with mine and I think it may have been caused by improper loading, where I needed to wind on the film advance a lot more than normal to cock the shutter. Is your problem similar to setting the camera to "A" with no film and trying to cock the shutter (film advance just keeps turning), or something completely different? I have found that rushing with film loading is not something the EC likes, as you inevitably stuff it up, even just slightly. This doesn't explain to me why it has a problem in "D" with no film unless...any problem cocking the shutter and firing with the film magazine (or back, or whatever) removed? Watch your fingers!!

Of course your problem may be something else unrelated, but I'd like to see you rule these things out!! :angel:

Thanks for your detailed response, coming from the EC man himself LOL. Regarding the mirror not returning, I concluded that it got stuck to the place where the mirror bumper foam was, which is now just a gooey black thing with some glue on it. The mirror and mirror chamber is more than reasonably clean for a camera its age. I figured foam replacement will cure this mirror issue.

Regarding the shutter issue, the crank did stop and cocked the shutter, and maybe I wasn't clear earlier, but this problem happens intermitently. Exposing 12 frames in a roll of 120 film, I had to press the shutter for 16 or 18 times. The extra 4 or so actuations are the blank ones.

If I remember correctly from two days of ownership, there are four way the shutter button will feel:
1. Film advanced, shutter cocked, darkslide removed, it will depress fully and release the shutter
2. Film advanced, shutter cocked, darkslide inserted in the film plane, it will depress fully but the shutter will not release
3. Film not advanced which means the shutter is not cocked, the shutter will not depress
4. Of course if the button is turned a few degrees this will lock the shutter and it won't fire

Now what I'm experiencing feels like the darkslide is in the way whereas it was not. Could be some mechanism falsely detecting that the darkslide is still inserted?

Thanks again for sharing your expertise.

Check the double exposure lever on the same and just under the lever for 120 or 220 film. If the lever is switch to single exposure with no film the camera will not fire. Perhaps the lever is moving. Also, confirm the battery is GOOD. Insert a new battery! Good luck.

Hi Maiku, the film selector points to 120, and it winds okay with no problem. The exposure mode selects to A for single exposure. Battery is new. Thanks again, really hope this is something minor so I can continue using it.

Update: I posted a pic of the camera in the first post.

 

[jwicaksana]

So I think I got this sorted out. I took the camera to my repairman, and we checked it together. Turns out, the small arm that protrudes from the backside of the camera body (intruding into the back when the back is in place) is troublesome. Could be dirt or old grease, but what I found is sometimes it won't extend to its full length which caused the camera not firing. So it kinda thinks that the darkslide is still inserted in the film plane. I forgot to take pictures but I hope my explanation makes sense.

Oh and he also found that the screws that are holding the mirror are loose! Almost every single one of them need tightening. Putting that mighty mirror slap into consideration, it's not so strange I guess.

 

[Mystyler]

Sounds like you have it sorted! Which is a fantastic thing as it is a great little brick.

Regarding the foam around the focus screen and mirror, mine has pretty much all gone...no light leakage that I can see.

Enjoy!

 

[BLKRCAT]

congrats on the bronnie

 

[Mystyler]

Just seen the picture - the body looks in better nick than mine!

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Keep that camera dry and store it away from humidity as much as possible. (Yes, I know that may be difficult in Jakarta.) The electronic control board in it is notorious for failing and there are no replacements available. Perhaps Jimmy Koh at Koh's Camera here in the states has some left but I wouldn't hold my breath. A friend of mine went through two EC bodies with bad boards before he got a good one a few years back.

Phil Forrest

 

[Dave Jenkins]

Jonathan, I owned a complete EC outfit in the late '70s--early 80s, so bear in mind that it's an old camera. Especially old, for an electronic device. So expect it to be a little erratic from time to time.

I have a bellows unit and a 50mm lens for the EC, if you should happen to want them. Let me know.

Hope you and your friend are enjoying the books!

Kind regards,

 

[jwicaksana]

Sounds like you have it sorted! Which is a fantastic thing as it is a great little brick.

Regarding the foam around the focus screen and mirror, mine has pretty much all gone...no light leakage that I can see.

Enjoy!

congrats on the bronnie

Just seen the picture - the body looks in better nick than mine!

Thank you! Once I am sure it's fixed, I'll take proper photos of it. Really beautiful camera and very well thought out I think.

 

[jwicaksana]

Keep that camera dry and store it away from humidity as much as possible. (Yes, I know that may be difficult in Jakarta.) The electronic control board in it is notorious for failing and there are no replacements available. Perhaps Jimmy Koh at Koh's Camera here in the states has some left but I wouldn't hold my breath. A friend of mine went through two EC bodies with bad boards before he got a good one a few years back.

Phil Forrest

Hi Phil, thanks for your tip on keeping in dry. Jakarta is fairly humid but I never have actual problems with fungus and other optical issues associated with humidity. Now electrical board is another thing so I'll keep that in mind.
Is it notorious for failing after 2-3 decades or it just fails even if it was relatively new? And does it show signs of deterioration or it just fail like *pop*? Hope this is not the latter.

Jonathan, I owned a complete EC outfit in the late '70s--early 80s, so bear in mind that it's an old camera. Especially old, for an electronic device. So expect it to be a little erratic from time to time.

I have a bellows unit and a 50mm lens for the EC, if you should happen to want them. Let me know.

Hope you and your friend are enjoying the books!

Kind regards,

Hi Dave,
In what ways shall I expect it to be a little erratic? The friend who sold me this offered to take this back if I am not comfortable with the issues. I was actually looking for an RB or RZ, but after handholding the EC for a while, I don't think I'll comfortably handhold an RB/RZ for an extended period of time.
Any signs to watch out which could be deciding factors to keep it or not?

The bellows accommodate tilt and shift, does it not? Must be really cool to use with the 50!

Oh the books are of course enjoyable, I love the Karsh and McIntosh book, both fueled my search for a medium format SLR

 

[shadowfox]

Jonathan,

Another common problem with old Bronnies are the sliding of the mirror.
When you tighten the screws, did you take the time to make sure the mirror is sitting in its proper place? Your repair man will know more about what I am talking about, but he may not suspect it enough to check on it.

It's extremely frustrating after spending your first roll, thinking that everything is in order, only to discover that your images are not focused properly. I had that with my Bronica S, so just want to warn you about it.

 

[jwicaksana]

Jonathan,

Another common problem with old Bronnies are the sliding of the mirror.
When you tighten the screws, did you take the time to make sure the mirror is sitting in its proper place? Your repair man will know more about what I am talking about, but he may not suspect it enough to check on it.

It's extremely frustrating after spending your first roll, thinking that everything is in order, only to discover that your images are not focused properly. I had that with my Bronica S, so just want to warn you about it.

Will, exactly what I experienced, my first roll came back with only one image properly exposed that is frame #4.

And no I didn't check if the mirror is sitting in its proper place. Any way to properly check this, maybe using a ground glass in the film plane?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[shadowfox]

Will, exactly what I experienced, my first roll came back with only one image properly exposed that is frame #4.
And no I didn't check if the mirror is sitting in its proper place. Any way to properly check this, maybe using a ground glass in the film plane?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jonathan,
I could be wrong, but from your picture, it looks like a case of severe underexposure.
I can't tell if the focus is off or not.

Scan it and if you see something like this:

-- while you remember exactly that the sign should be sharp in focus (when you compose through the mirror). Then you know that you have a problem with the mirror sliding from its proper place.

 

[Dave Jenkins]

When I said erratic, I was thinking that the electronics may not be especially reliable.

You mentioned the RB67 as another camera you had looked at -- the RB isn't that much heavier than the Bronica EC, and since it's totally mechanical, it's likely to be much more reliable.

 

[jwicaksana]

Jonathan,
I could be wrong, but from your picture, it looks like a case of severe underexposure.
I can't tell if the focus is off or not.

Scan it and if you see something like this:

-- while you remember exactly that the sign should be sharp in focus (when you compose through the mirror). Then you know that you have a problem with the mirror sliding from its proper place.

Will, I too hope that was just my mistake of underexposing. However I metered every shot with my Sekonic, even overexposing an Ektacolor 160 at ASA 100.
I will do it again more carefully, next time on a tripod, checking both the focus and the exposure. Thanks again, Will.

When I said erratic, I was thinking that the electronics may not be especially reliable.

You mentioned the RB67 as another camera you had looked at -- the RB isn't that much heavier than the Bronica EC, and since it's totally mechanical, it's likely to be much more reliable.

I tested a friend's RB a while back, and I think its actual weight is overshadowed by its boxy shape and larger size. Being mechanical and 6x7 is definitely a positive point for me.
Thank you Dave for your insights.