Help chosing next camera

defconfunk

n00b
Local time
2:18 AM
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
282
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
I only got into film last year. I spent most of the last year playing around and figuring out what I do and do not like. I picked up a Yashica Minister 700 to see what the RF fuss was about, and I love it - but I never use it. Whenever I want a daily shooter, I reach for my OM40 instead.

I wanted to try my hand at medium format, so I picked up an old Nettar folder (non RF). While I enjoy the camera as art, I find it a royal pain to use as a camera (no ranger finder, no light meter, limited shutter speeds, and a terribly tiny view finder). But the Medium Format film is a keeper.

I may or may not keep the Minister (hard to keep something you never use, but it is cool when I do). I will definitely be selling the Nettar and moving on to something easier to use. I like the idea of combining the two with a medium format RF. A Fuji GS546S recently came up for sale for $375 locally, and on paper it looks like what I want, but the fagility scare me (I plan on taking this thing hiking, so while it doesn't need to be a tank, it can't be fragile either). That's pretty much the top of my budget, which really limits my choices.

I'm hoping for some ideas and experiences on which way to proceed.

Must haves
-Manual focus
-Light Meter (I have a light meter, but I prefer using an in-camera meter)
-Fixed lens close to normal (35mm - 70mm in 35mm terms)
-Inexpensive
-120 back

Wants/Wishes
-Big bright finder (if RF, strong patch)
-Light meter that works on a scale (example: Canon AE-1, not just "over, under, good enough" ala point and shoots)
-Reasonably tough
-Fast lens
-Ergonomic

Do not care about
-Auto focus
-AE Lock
-Weight
-Power anything (other than light meter)
-which ratio it uses (645,6x6,67,69, all are fun)

Other than the fragility, the GS645S looks pretty much ideal to me.
Other options in the RF world include the later Fuji GA (no manual focus?), the fuji 67 and 69 RFs, the Mamyia 6&7, and the Bronica RF (all too expensive?)

Dipping outside of the RF world, There are the old MF Mamyias (645e,j,pro,super). There are an E and a J locally that are near my price range. They have the benefit of fast lenses (80mm 2.8), but these two lack light meters. The Pentax 645 system is also an option, but the view finder seems to always be called 'dim' and the light meter sounds like the type I'd prefer to avoid.

So, if you've used any of these cameras, what would you recommend? I know the low budget makes this thread lousy for vicarious-day-dreaming, but think of it as problem solving 😉
 
The Mamiya 645E does have a built-in meter, and offers both metered manual and aperture-priority autoexposure operation. It also offers you access to an 80mm f/1,9 should you so desire.

Personally I own a Pro TL and find it to be one of my favourite cameras. Lenses and accessories are plentiful and reasonably cheap, and with a WLF (not an option with the 645E) and 80mm f/2.8 it makes for a compact and lightweight camera for all-day carry. Even with a meter prism attached it's eminently portable.
 
As said the E has a build in meter (and diopter iirc) and the J can use a metered prism. But adding a metered prism adds weight. That's what's worry me, you want to go hiking. The Mamiya 645J with the waistlevel finder is the lightest of the series. And with lens is more than 1.2 kg. Not a lightweight.

I use a ProTL as well and have a J that I trow in my rucksack (mostly with the 45 or the 55-110). The J feels tougher than the ProTL but I have no idea if it is so. But it has less little levers and buttons sticking out so I feel safer. On the other hand if I go walking for a day I take a Fuji GA645Zi. Much less weight, meter, auto-everything and a little 2x zoom in the lousiest pouch ever made. Meters with more info available, but some are under-right-over types.

Another option might be a Kiev 60. With waistlevel finder it isn't that heavy (not more than the 645). Nice bright viewfinder. Rugged and cheap to replace. With the prism you get a meter but while it can help out it isn't much (not coupled to the lens or speed) and just 3 leds. You get 6x6 then but there are 4.5x6 versions.

Another RF option is the Bronica RF645. Rather expensive and no idea how rugged that is. Good metering and finder and compact and (relatively) light.

Don't know how you would feel about a TLR. These are often rather rugged.
 
Good to know the 645E has a light meter (I'll admit I really haven't figured out the differences in the Mamyia 645 line). Why is it that the E can't use a waist level finder?

I said weight doesn't matter, but I'll admit, the idea of a 3 pound camera doesn't sit well for hiking. My OM40 with lens is pretty close to a pound, which means that I'd have a hard time justifying bringing the 645 over the 35mm, negating the whole point of having one.

Most of the Mamyias locally don't have the grip - being used to the (D)SLR style of holding a camera, how easy is it to hold one of these and use an eye level finder without the grip?
 
645E is not a rangefinder, is it? I would recommend the Bronica RF645. You can get a body and standard lens to begin with for about $700 and it is first rate and will do all you have asked for.

Joel
 
Good to know the 645E has a light meter (I'll admit I really haven't figured out the differences in the Mamyia 645 line). Why is it that the E can't use a waist level finder?
It has a fixed eye-level finder, unlike all the other variants which have interchangeable finders. I believe it was intended to be the budget version of the later manual-focus Mamiya 645 cameras (it also lacks swappable backs and motor winders).
 
Thanks for clearing that up Ruby. I thought the J was a stripper version too? Just an earlier one?

Joel, while the Bronica does look to fit the bill, it's pertty much twice what I can justify to spend on a MF camera. In reality, I probably won't use the MF camera enough to justify even my current budget - but GAS is a funny thing.

If anyone does have a line on a Bronica RF for my budget, please let me know 😉
 
In a rf medium format in that price range w/ a meter.. The only thing that I can think of is a 50-60s era folder like the Zeiss ikon iv. However these built in meters are not very accurate since they use selinum cell meters.

Fuji had both a folder and non-folder in 645.. That would meet your req.

Bronica rf, Mamiya 6/7, Bessa iv/Cosina 670, etc (all the modern mf rfs w/ meters are easily double that price if not quadruple even used if they are in good condition).

Check out this site.. He has several rf medium format cameras here. He talks a out the issues he has encountered w/ the bromica and the Fuji btw.

http://arukucamera.net/index.html

Gary
 
I have a Zeiss 6x9 folder I keep in my Kiev 4am kit bag. Auto nothing, but takes really nice photos. It's also very light. I have a Welta 6x6 I keep in my Contax 167mt bag. Oddly, a little heavier, but not so much. Of course, that is me, not you. You have listed a lot of must haves/wants/needs. You might see what you can scratch off your lists and see what is available.

Again, just me, but I would not care to have a 645. I prefer at least 6x6, so I can take my 645 bite out of any portion of the negative I desire. Of course, if you are a square shooter, you would still prefer the 6x6 anyway. For me, and many who post here, MF is not a 35mm fast shooter. So you might consider that slowing down to use your hand held meter isn't a bad idea, plus perhaps allowing more useful readings. But I understand the desire for an in-camera meter. My first good MF was a Yashica MAT 124G. I really appreciated the built-in meter. Since, I have gotten to where it isn't so important.

You might want to consider a Newer Mamiya 7 for the negative size and interchangable lenses and meter. I don't know how much they go for though, or what they weigh.

Good luck in your choice. It sounds like you might be well off to keep looking at different cameras, and pare down your lists until you find something you really like in your price range.
 
I found this thread interesting (for anyone else with similar thoughts, who like me, didn't think of putting a MF dicussion in SLRs)
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131230

I had only been looking at the auction site, my local kijiji, and KEH.com, but I did a search on Adorama's used section, and I'm finding plenty of options in my price range (all with trade offs). Unfortunately, few are RFs.

Right now I'm trying to figure out all the limitations on the different models of Mamyia 645 and Bronica ETR...
 
I have a GS645S [kind gift from a friend]:

Pros:

Excellent lens
Big bright parallax correct viewfinder
Modern meter [but it is just over-under]

Cons:

Noisy shutter
Fragile [I partly tore the lens bumper off mine when it snagged on a bag strap]
Rangefinder patch (on mine at least) isn't very contrasty - although usable.
 
I thought the J was a stripper version too? Just an earlier one?

It is indeed the earlier stripped version. Did away with mirror lock-up and a second release button. No removable back but then the earlier series didn't have removable backs at all.

Most of the Mamyias locally don't have the grip - being used to the (D)SLR style of holding a camera, how easy is it to hold one of these and use an eye level finder without the grip?

Depends. The film runs from top to bottom through them. So for landscape that is fine to hold. But for portrait it is something else. Doesn't depends much on the grip but on the finder. Very hard with a waistlevel finder, not so hard with a prism. Keep in mind that both J and E need "special" grips, not those from the more common series.

I would recommend the Bronica RF645.

Also nice camera, I love it for the ergonomics. But the widest is a 45mm and then you have to use a very large external finder wich rather defeats the whole idea. Only 3 lenses available, no service anymore, minimum focus 1m and expensive for what it brings to the table. Rather fragile vertical alignment of the rangefinder (certainly compared to a Fuji).
 
Find me 135mm and try to get it aligned to the body and the framelines replaced by Tamron. Far easier and cheaper to find a 50mm for the Fuji G690BL.
 
So far it looks like I'm going to go with a SLR MF. Either the Mamiya or Bronica ETR-S. Right now the ETRS is winning because I can get the exact setup I want from KEH for under $400.

It's a shame the smaller Fuji rangefinders don't have appear to have the build quality of the bigger 6x9 brothers...
 
I ended up ordering the Bronica ETR-Si. I guess this gives me an excuse to hold onto my Minister for a while yet 🙂

Also, KEH has utterly fantastic telephone sales/support. Colour me impressed.
 
Back
Top Bottom