Help! Contax ll shutter crate jam

[Kevcaster]

Hi everyone. Flushed with my success with a lla and llla I bought a Contax ll to test my skills and guess what? My skills so far are not up to it.
I have replaced the ribbons with Aki-Asahi silk replacement and cleaned all the easily demountable components and assemblies including the shutter crate. The ribbons were successfully replaced but the shutter cocking remained very stiff and rough. I installed them quite accurately at 4 3/8 inches after folds according to Rick Olesons procedure.
As I cycled the shutter the top curtain shaft fell from the crate unnoticed and I cycled the shutter to the sound of slipping gears. The result is that the wind on can be cycled by repeated use of the shutter release but the curtain mechanism will not engage and pull up the curtains. It feels as if an interlock is engaged at the incorrect point. The curtains appear not to engage soon enough in the wind on cycle. Otherwise everything seems to work freely and is functional.

All help very, very gratefully received.
Kevin

 

[Highway 61]

As I cycled the shutter the top curtain shaft fell from the crate unnoticed and I cycled the shutter to the sound of slipping gears. The result is that the wind on can be cycled by repeated use of the shutter release but the curtain mechanism will not engage and pull up the curtains. It feels as if an interlock is engaged at the incorrect point.

Beginner operator error ! When you remove a Contax II shutter crate from the camera, first thing to do is to secure the upper curtain shaft end with some adhesive tape and PDQ, to avoid what happened to you :

When done you can work freely on the shutter, nothing bad can happen.

But - you haven't.

And now you're in the major curtains desynchronization troubles. Some years ago, Rick had sent me a set of photos which may be helpful to try to re-sync. your curtains :

Good luck...

 

[Kevcaster]

OK thanks Highway 61, definitely beginner error! Especially stupid as I had read about this and allowed my concentration to lapse.
I will try this and see what happens, otherwise might send the crate to Oleg. I have enjoyed this experience the Contax ll much different than the lla. Again there were many indications of service work, missing and incorrect screws a crude flash sync drilled into the front. The ribbons gave way after about 20 cycles and I was looking forward to the experience, the first stage went quite well.
Other functions seem to be fine. Still impressive engineering after 70 years.
Thanks again
Kevin

 

[Kevcaster]

I have tried this but have no confidence that my work is correct. The shutter will now pull up half way and engages the escapement but will not go further. Several tries at engaging cogs in either direction seems not to allow the shutter to move all the way up, it comes to a definite stop.
I wonder how the top curtain has to be in the setup, mine hangs somewhat loosely in the tripped position. Also the shutter has to be tripped twice to allow a complete cycle.
All input welcome as always and I appreciate your time and advice
Kevin

 

[Highway 61]

A decade ago when I tackled my first Contax II shutter, what just happened to you happened to me back then.

Well, I never could re-sync the shutter. Lesson learnt ! That said, this is possible - but this requires some complicated processes and tricks.

You should be able to do it with lots of patience. I'd suggest that you look for tips and sketches out there...

Good luck.

 

[Kevcaster]

Yes this has been a sobering lesson indeed. Trying one last avenue and if not successful then I'll pack it off to a repair person.
Kevin

 

[Kevcaster]

I found the information in Maizenberg's book. A PDF is available on usssrphoto.com- no longer present on that site
It works but I have not tested the accuracy, looks like the slow speeds are fine but the high speeds are suspect. As you probably know it is one part skill, one part patience and one part black magic, I'm sure if I was doing it 100 times a day it would be all skill
I now have another problem on re-assembly the windon jams when the speed dial is fitted, any clues?
Kevin

 

[Kevcaster]

The wind on jam was caused by two non standard screws holding the speed bezel in place. They projected too far into the top cover and foul the mechanisms, ho hum.
On reading the Maizenberg again I note that the uncertainty in the resynchronising process is exactly how far to roll up the second (top) curtain before offering it's gear up to the two gears that drive and are driven by it. I tried several times before going the whole hog and winding two complete revolutions - this has got me to 1 gear tooth of the settings in the pictures posted by Highway 61 above. i'm settling on this for now, all the speeds fire - no guarantees on accuracy or even if the fast speeds open! What a business this has been further complicated by the rather worn nature of the unit I'm working on. Bought as a project, this camera is very worn and may not be totally usable when I'm finished. It is an odd mix of very worn paint leather and internals, evidence of serial servicing, clean mechanics and oddly, the chrome trim is very good - no brassing!
Thanks again for all the selfless postings on these forums, so useful, so interesting.
Kevin

 

[Kevcaster]

This camera is now operational with the exception of shutter capping at 1/1250. I will look at it next week when I disassemble it to harvest the bottom drum for another Contax ll that is in fine condition and had new (incorrect) ribbons but a broken spring in the drum. The seller either knew this and concealed it, or was genuinely unaware. The shutter was described as working at speeds beyond 1/25th but the top curtain simply carried the bottom curtain along for the ride.

Should anyone seeing this post have a spare Contax drum I will gladly purchase it otherwise I will buy a cheap Kiev and take just the spring assembly.

Another challenging but ultimately enjoyable, winter project. When these are finished and working as they should I think that these 2 Contaxes are probably my last attempt at overhaul of these cameras. I have enjoyed the journey into the past and my admiration for the Zeiss designers and engineers has increased considerably.
I approach retirement and thought I would learn as much as I could about camera repair to avoid having to send my M6 to Leica in years to come - They recently quoted me £300-500 for a service . By practicing on these older and cheaper cameras I have built up some confidence. Next winter I'll open up my Rolleiflex and have a look inside.

Many thanks for all the help provided by the members on this forum, what a fabulous collective resource you represent.

Kevin

 

[Kevcaster]

Final update on this. I eventually sent the shutter to the Ukraine for servicing. The link is here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/emjaybe63?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
Mike Barnes is the owner of this ebay site and he has access to a trained Kiev tech. If you can deal with the consignment costs then the repairs are reasonable. His tech also repaired a Contarex for me so is capable on many different cameras.
Again many thanks to all who helped, always useful and interesting
Kevin

 

[Kevcaster]

Contax ll further adventures

Contax ll further adventures

I now have two working Contax ll, a 1936 and a 1938 model - both brought back to life with similar difficulty and with the help of this forum. New Aki-Asahi ribbons, ultrasonic cleaning where possible, flush cleaning, tiny amount of light oil and so on.

The 1938 operates pretty well and seems to be functioning at all speeds and tests within 1/3 stop at the slow end 1/2 to 1/50th.
The 1936 camera is fully functional with the following exception. The lower curtain does not park fully before the upper curtain begins traveling causing an unexposed band to appear on the film. The upper curtain finally nudges it into the correct position. The fault is present most of the time but occasionally it will fall into the correct position. The speeds from 1/125 to 1/1250 all work to spec. I wonder if this will settle in or if it something I have to fix.

I believe the lower curtain spring is tensioned into the right number of turns - about 9, what do you think of the problem? Any help gratefully received as always.

 

[ZeissFan]

I was going to tell you that you need to reposition the gear that controls the upper curtain. It must be in a certain position, otherwise, you get no tension on the upper curtain.

Personally, the Contax II is a pain in the neck to service.

 

[Kevcaster]

This problem is resolved, the leather 'brake' was too prominent after removal and refitting. I trimmed this down a little in small stages until the lower curtain parked itself properly.
This is now a fully functional Contax ll, takes lovely characterful pictures, speeds consistent, focus excellent and not much else to worry about.
Thanks again for all the help offered throughout the struggle.

 

[oftheherd]

I have a Contax II with broken straps. You are both scaring me and giving me confidence that maybe even I can do it. Thanks for all the updates you have done. If you took any photos of what you did and how you overcame any problems they would be welcome to people who dare to tempt fate. 😛

 

[Kevcaster]

I have a Contax II with broken straps. You are both scaring me and giving me confidence that maybe even I can do it. Thanks for all the updates you have done.

I would say that any person with patience and a little screwdriver skill can fit new Contax ribbons. Look for Rick Oleson's page and the Kiev Survival site for the pictures. As long as the bottom roller spring is intact you are in good shape. Buy good precision screwdrivers like Wilha.

Open the shutter cover - 5 screws, one concealed - & have a look. If it doesn't scare you then this is where you will work. The shutter has to be de-tensioned and once the new ribbons are re-fitted; re-tensioned. This requires some dexterity and is the most difficult part.

Buy ribbons from Aki-Asahi, they are correct and he is inexpensive and quick.

Good luck

 

[nhchen]

I think the contax I I have has unsynced gears, does anyone know how I could get them back to the correct position? I can't remove the shutter like I've done on a contax II, it seem to be built into the body.
nathan

 

[TheHub]

I think the contax I I have has unsynced gears, does anyone know how I could get them back to the correct position? I can't remove the shutter like I've done on a contax II, it seem to be built into the body.
nathan

You want to take the shutter out of a Contax II? Follow the instructions here: http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/shutter assembly removal.html When you get to the 7th picture, the Contax II has a screw underneath the film counter gears. It should be easy to wiggle the shutter assembly out of the camera.

 

[nhchen]

You want to take the shutter out of a Contax II? Follow the instructions here: http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/shutter assembly removal.html When you get to the 7th picture, the Contax II has a screw underneath the film counter gears. It should be easy to wiggle the shutter assembly out of the camera.

Oh, I meant the shutter in a contax I. I'm able to figure out how the contax II works but not in the earlier contax I.

thanks anyway,
nathan

 

[TheHub]

Great thread, I have never tackled a Contax, only Leica copies and Nikon. But this made me feel brave enough.

I'm trying to fix two Contax IIs right now, and so far it's been an absolute nightmare 🙁

 

[Dralowid]

Oh, I meant the shutter in a contax I. I'm able to figure out how the contax II works but not in the earlier contax I.

thanks anyway,
nathan

I gave up trying before I went too far but as far as I could tell, the Contax I is not 'modular' (not really the right word but you'll get my drift). In other words you seem to need to pull almost everything you come across apart as you go in deeper. I don't think the shutter can be removed as a unit.