Help cry for freedom of Turkey

Hi Roger,

Thank you for the support.

I want to add something. Please do not confuse this with Arabic Spring actions. Because this is nothing like it. People here don't fight against a dictator in order to build a worse islamic one. People are resisting to defend their freedom. This is neither a nationalist action nor islamic. These rebellious are willing to unit with the rest of the world's free people and waiting for their support.

We hear that there are a lot of demonstrations all around the world to support Turkey. This is very encouraging. International community reaction is quite important to stop this violance.

I want to thank all of you who understand us and support us.

Link is updated...

http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com
 
taylan said:
Hi to everyone
I just manage to come home. Protest still going on. I am fallowing protest in Turkey near a decade and I never saw such think. I am used to tear gas and generally I am not using a gas mask but this time I felt to need for it. Also it is reported that police are started to use a different gas. There is a violent clash around Beşiktaş now. Actually at evening time protesters started to celebrate their victories at Taksim. But now everything is changed. As I said clashes are going on Beşiktaş. Moreover clashes are spread around Turkey.
Just saw the topic and want to give some brief information from the field (Sorry I couldn't read whole thread). I am exhausted and I need to sleep for tomorrow.

BTW Everything changed so rapidly and I couldn't stop by my local film dealer. Guess what? I had no film during action. And guess again? I don't have a digital camera. I must be an idiot. Nevertheless I am in the action and at least recording it in my mind.
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Same thing here Taylan. I ran out of film last night so I'm using my iphone until it runs out of battery. I really wish I had a proper digital right now. But there is no shortage of photographers on the streets.

I was in Besiktas with Simon yesterday, from the peaceful time until the end of the clashes. I have to say it's getting more violent, protesters are getting more determined, but you see all kinds if people on the streets, young and old, mothers, fathers, couples, friends, everything. It's amazing to see the solidarity.

I don't think Taksim saw action last night, but barricades have been reinforced. Hotel are offering their lobbies for people to rest and charge their phones, free food and drinks are being distributed...

I'm getting used to the teargas too. We all are. On my ride back this morning, the cab driver had to open his window. My clothes smelled too much like teargas for him. He had trouble keeping his eyes open.

A dialog needs to open, not this electoral monologue.
 
Hi Martin,

I am glad you and Simon are OK.

Today, on 19.00 at Taksim, there will be again regrouping. If you join, please be careful.

By the way, if someone can move this topic to a more noticable place, I will be very glad.

Another info; starting from yesterday, Anonymous started hacking governmental web sites and communication channels. Love you guys...
 
smbilgin said:
. . . I want to add something. Please do not confuse this with Arabic Spring actions. Because this is nothing like it. People here don't fight against a dictator in order to build a worse islamic one. People are resisting to defend their freedom. This is neither a nationalist action nor islamic. These rebellious are willing to unit with the rest of the world's free people and waiting for their support. . . .
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Even the so-called 'Arab spring' is not as monolithic and simplistic as many would have us believe. The big difference between Turkey and the 'Arab Spring', as far as I can see, is that in Turkey a secular republic is being furtively Islamized by someone who wants to turn the country into a copy of pre-Arab Spring Islamist states, with Islamist law and a 'strong-man' leader. In other words, Erdogan is going directly against the tide of history.

A question, though. The BBC and several other media keep saying that it's mainly younger people who support the protests. The pictures in your link suggest that it's much wider than this. It is the sight of old, bearded men like myself, bloodied by the police, which makes me think that support for the movement is all but universal among secularists of all ages. Am I correct?

Thanks again,

R.
 
Having been in Istanbul a little over a year ago with the RFF EuroMeet and finding it such a beautiful place with people that are so friendly, open and warm I'm both concerned and heartened by recent events. Concerned for the safety and welfare of the people, heartened by their solidarity and actions.

To my friends, both old and new, in Istanbul stay safe and sensible in these dangerous times and for those of you using your photographic skills at this time to document what is happening I wish you the very best of luck and reiterate; stay safe - your stories will only emerge if you are there to tell them.

Sincerely
Simon
 
Thank you Jon for moving the topic.


Roger, you are right. It is much wider than only youth now. Fathers, mothers, even kids are on the streets now. People who can go to the streets and resist are behind the barricades. People who cannot, they switch on and off their house lights all night to support to protestors. Shop owners provide free water, lemon, milk and food to the protestors. Every public buildings are becaming local hospitals. Nurses, doctors, medical students are voluntarily helping people on the streets or converted local hospitals. But we hear from different locations they are out of medical supplies. On the other hand, god damn tear and pepper gas never run out. Anyway, people are getting used to it quickly.

Anyway. Thank you all...
 
Roger Hicks said:
Even the so-called 'Arab spring' is not as monolithic and simplistic as may would have us believe. The big difference between Turkey and the 'Arab Spring', as far as I can see, is that in Turkey a secular republic is being furtively Islamized by someone who wants to turn the country into a copy of pre-Arab Spring Islamist states, with Islamist law and a 'strong-man' leader. In other words, Erdogan is going directly against the tide of history.

A question, though. The BBC and several other media keep saying that it's mainly younger people who support the protests. The pictures in your link suggest that it's much wider than this. It is the sight of old, bearded men like myself, bloodied by the police, which makes me think that support for the movement is all but universal among secularists of all ages. Am I correct?

Thanks again,

R.
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I think this is incorrect. As far as I can see, Erdogan has not imposed an outright copy of Sharia law, nor have there been explicit plans to do so yet.

However, there are definitely adherents to "secularism" as per what Atarturk espoused. However, I wouldn't be so quick to even support these guys because one of the things they do support is the denial of all the Armenian Genocide, and also the various pogroms inflicted against the Greeks etc. Rather these people are Turkish Nationalists, with all the problems with Nationalism to go with it.
 
NazgulKing said:
I think this is incorrect. As far as I can see, Erdogan has not imposed an outright copy of Sharia law, nor have there been explicit plans to do so yet.

However, there are definitely adherents to "secularism" as per what Atarturk espoused. However, I wouldn't be so quick to even support these guys because one of the things they do support is the denial of all the Armenian Genocide, and also the various pogroms inflicted against the Greeks etc. Rather these people are Turkish Nationalists, with all the problems with Nationalism to go with it.
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That's why I said "furtively": the key word is "yet".

I fully understand your point about the unsavoury side of Turkish nationalism, especially vis-a-vis Armenia and pogroms. But my understanding (again, correct me if I'm wrong) is that Erdogan and his merry men are not exactly progressive on these points either: they merely have a different idea of what aggressive Turkish nationalism should look like.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
A question, though. The BBC and several other media keep saying that it's mainly younger people who support the protests. The pictures in your link suggest that it's much wider than this. It is the sight of old, bearded men like myself, bloodied by the police, which makes me think that support for the movement is all but universal among secularists of all ages. Am I correct?

Thanks again,

R.
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Last night I found an unprotected elderly gentlemen in the smoke without any protection. Some other kid and I took him to the back. Severe exposure to the gas makes you choke and you can't open your eyes. You think you will faint, you just want to lie down.

The young people run around and build barricades. They are the physically active ones and the more photogenic ones. The "older" people chant and cheer when the young throw the grenades back or away. A lot of supports comes from homes directly, through shelter or handing out food and drinks and "losyon", or the mix that makes tear gas bearable. Also through banging pots and pans from their windows.

After the clashes we walked through Taksim. Simon has pictures of families sleeping under big blankets under the trees in Gezi.

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Let me clarify one thing for everyone who may confuse.

The people who resist on the streets today believes that every nations and races are brothers and sisters. We accept Greeks and Armenians as our brothers and sisters along with all other nations. The denials and hate policy is government business, not people's.

Yes there are a lot of nationalist people who resist on the streets but at least they are not facist. And none of them have problems with Greeks and Armenians.

Please do not confuse these people with the idiot facists.
 
I'm certainly no expert on Turkey, but my impression is the general populace there is better off freedom wise than in the majority of the middle east. They have no ayatollahs, sharia law, high unemployment, class/ gender discrimination, summary executions and other madness.

However, that is not to say they don't have genuine complaints. I hope they can someday realize freedom and opportunity.
 
I hope I'll be able to get there soon, OTOH I hope it will end before that.

Question is what will happen till next elections, and its two more years. Erdoğan wont give up easily.
 
smbilgin said:
Let me clarify one thing for everyone who may confuse.

The people who resist on the streets today believes that every nations and races are brothers and sisters. We accept Greeks and Armenians as our brothers and sisters along with all other nations. The denials and hate policy is government business, not people's.

Yes there are a lot of nationalist people who resist on the streets but at least they are not facist. And none of them have problems with Greeks and Armenians.

Please do not confuse these people with the idiot facists.
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Sorry: I did not mean for one moment to conflate the extreme nationalists with the vast majority of those who are protesting. All I'm saying is that to pretend that Erdogan and his chums are in some way progressive is to be overly kind to him.

Cheers,

R.
 
Bill58 said:
I'm certainly no expert on Turkey, but my impression is the general populace there is better off freedom wise than in the majority of the middle east. They have no ayatollahs, sharia law, high unemployment, class/ gender discrimination, summary executions and other madness.

However, that is not to say they don't have genuine complaints. I hope they can someday realize freedom and opportunity.
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The Near East (called by Americans the Middle East) is a big place; Turkey is a huge country; and the Arab Spring hasn't taken place uniquely in the Near East. To conflate Turkey with the rest of the Near East is a bit like saying that really, Canada, the USA and Mexico are all more or less the same. Likewise, Morocco is rather different from neighbouring Algeria, to say nothing of Tunisia and Libya.

Turkey has been a secular republic since 1923, so they wouldn't have ayatollahs and Sharia law: Kemal Ataturk is one of the great men of history.

Cheers,

R.
 
Thank you guys, to all of you...

Last information: Thousands of white collar people went to the biggest press organizations today in day break and protested them for censorship.

CNN Turk shows some documentary about penguins and at the same time CNN International shows clashes on the street - live. Unbelievable...
 
In democratic countries, politicians are elected by the people. They are the voice of the people. What then gives them the right after they are elected to act like dictators?

My wife and I were in Turkey, Istanbul 5 years ago while she was pregnant. We found it warm and inviting. We hope to return soon for extended stay with our little boy.
 
kbg32 said:
In democratic countries, politicians are elected by the people. They are the voice of the people. What then gives them the right after they are elected to act like dictators?

My wife and I were in Turkey, Istanbul 5 years ago while she was pregnant. We found it warm and inviting. We hope to return soon for extended stay with our little boy.
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Well, Hitler was elected...

But even if they aren't dangerous nut-cases to begin with, power often goes to politicians' heads. Generally, too, they can press a few buttons -- national security, religion, xenophobia -- that will have a disproportionate resonance with their less intelligent or informed supporters.

Cheers,

R.
 
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