Help diagnose a problem with my Kiev 4aM.

[leica M2 fan]

I loaded a 12 exp. roll of Superia ASA 200 very carefully and made sure the film was taut and fired off 7 shots. The rewind knob turned just like it's supposed to. Around exposure 8 or 9 ( the counter doesn't work) I noticed the rewind was not turning. I continued to shoot to the end of the roll. I got exp. no. 13, 14 and 15 and stopped and rewound and had it processed. I got 13 beautiful color shots but 14 and 15 were doubles!! I can't understand why the rewound knob stopped turning when it did. This is not the first time it does this, last time also. Does anyone here have any idea why the knob stopped turning toward the end of the roll. Any suggestions are welcome, I just am baffled. 😕

 

[ruben]

Hi Fan,

First let me say I have no idea what the problem comes from.

But I just wanted to comment, within my "go around" paths, that always is a good idea, for any camera, to take care all the time the film within the feeding canister is always somewhat tight, and stay alert the rewind knob is always turning.
With all cameras it can happen that the winding side becomes messy and film frees itself.

Special attention is to be given at the end of film. Those among us who use or have used bulk film are more alert about this issue.

Now, obvously if your film counter doesn't work (BTW why ?) you are left without an important element of this vigilance. Nevertheless take care always the rewind knob is tight and moving when winding, and you will know by the end of the film when to stop.

I am sorry my technical experience doesn't go beyond and I can't be of better assistance. but the above said is my custom proceeding for ANY camera.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[leica M2 fan]

Thank you Ruben.

Thank you Ruben.

Thanks for your input, I will continue to be vigilant with the winding mechanism. I'm still working to see if I can locate the problem. Earlier I put through a " dummy" roll of film and watched as I wound it to the end, it worked perfectly! Thanks for your suggestion about the film counter, I will try to fix it. 🙂

 

[outfitter]

Sometimes the sprocket is not in the sprocket holes and the film is draged across the film gate with the sproket teeth hitting between the holes. The teeth may eventually tear into the film. In any nvent if the teeth aren't in the holes I think there could be enough irregularity to the film feed to result in double exposure but I'm not certain. Are there tears between the sprocket holes? Whenever I've believed a Kiev had transport problems it always turned out to be a loading problem.

Loading a Kiev/Contax can be tricky as both the film cannister and take-up spool can slip down or even fall out. Always be certain as you close the back that the sprocket teeth are in the holes and always pull the film taught with the rewind knob after you've wound on a couple of frames (if you make it taught just after you close the back you can pull the film off the rewind spool).

Michael

 

[greyhoundman]

The film counter is a friction operated part. If the spring washer is weak or grit and grudge gets in, it will cause it to not turn.
Also if the top is pushed in even a little it can cause it to jam or skip.

 

[leica M2 fan]

Thanks to Outfitter and Greyhoundman

Thanks to Outfitter and Greyhoundman

Hey guys thanks, I will be making sure that it is loaded correctly. I put a little dab of cleaner under the frame counter and it is working! Hey hey!

 

[ruben]

BTW, (some promo for the Kiev Project), at PART 4, dealing with improving camera markings, I will propose introducing a kind of "flag", a la Canonet QL, consisting in red taping part of the film counter from mark 35 to 0, thus allowing us to know much in advance when we are arriving to the end of film.

In general we should not be hysteric about this issue of end of film, just to keep an eye open.

Cheers,
Ruben

PS
for the Kiev Project Outline, see
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40454

 

[Xmas]

leicaM2fan
The clutch on the take up spool may be slipping too much, please try rolling the spool around with your thumb with the camera cocked it should have a resonable amount of friction.
The sprocked shaft does not drag the film it merely meters (counts) the film sprockets.
If the spool is uniformly slack or intermittently slack, you need watch makers screw drivers and a deep tray, e.g. an ice box ice cream container.
Undo the screws locating the take up spool, (in the tray!)
The plate holding the spool will remove.
The spool will drop out, but you may have loose bits and you need to see the order they should be in, hence the ice cream surfit.
If the tape up spool forks still have the concentric screw (it is large) remove the screw and the washers on it, carefully withdraw the forks and the washers above the forks. Nots the sequence of all the washers & spring.
The assembly of washers, spring and fork are the slipping clutch which controls the drive and inter frame spacing, clean every thing in CH3OH, or similar and reassemble tighten the concentric screw, resonable tight, it is not an auto lug nut, and the gear train above it is like a rolex's...
It may then give uneven spacing or be 100% ok, good luck...

Noel

 

[leica M2 fan]

Xmas

Xmas

Many thanks for the instructions, I checked the friction of the takeup spool and it is reasonably tight. I will try your method soon to see if it helps. Thanks again. 😀

 

[Mauro]

Dear friend, I may suppose one cause:
the rewind button on the bottom has been unintentionally pushed/engaged: when you wound the film, it did not advance.
I have read that some Kiev suffered for this problem: you may check RFF for this argument.
Hope it helps: I own a Kiev 4, a great camera indeed. I wish you can enjoy it in full!

Ciao

 

[Xmas]

If it is tight it wont have caused your problem, best leaving it along unless you want frame spacing and torn sprocket hole problems.

Was the base plate latch in the rewinding position or is there any thing wrong with the baseplate latch or the rewind pin driven by the latch?

Noel

 

[leica M2 fan]

Xmas

Xmas

Noel, the latch wasn't in the rewind position and about the pin I don't know. I'll have to check on this, thanks for all these clues. You are tremendous help, thanks again. I will certainly fix this problem because this 4aM is a wonderful camera.

 

[Xmas]

Ok, next test is to hold thumb on spool (gently) and wind on & fire camera to see if there is a dead spot, i.e. a missing tooth in the driven gears between the knob and the spool...

Kievs occassionally shear a tooth especially if they are not maintained.

Noel

 

[leica M2 fan]

No missing teeth anywhere on any of the little wheels

No missing teeth anywhere on any of the little wheels

or the sprocket. Hopefully, I'll find out the problem. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Xmas]

You need to lift the embellisher & top plate to see the gear teeth?

The next option is the location of the gears the gear on the fork shaft can move up with wear so it falls out of mesh with the driving gear and you get no drive. You need a spacer (a thick washer) to hold the driven gear lower so that there is 100% engagement axially.

I'd not expect this on a IIIIm.

Noel