HELP!!!! Hexar RF or Bessa R2a

[Rayt]

The Hexar is what the M7 should have been. The only downside to the Hexar RF aside from being discontinued is the often vertical rf misalignment. However it is only vertical though annoying it is still accurate. However annoying it is still not as annoying as the Cosina/Bessa/Ikon rangefinder patch that does not move with the framelines. Now that is annoying.

 

[infrequent]

@keith - i should have qualified it....as a package, the hexar is unbeatable. other RFs might excel at some task but can't pack the combined punch of the hexar.

added: i am seriously considering getting another hexar as i am starting to miss mine. but at this stage, it prolly is better to save for a dRF. and i hate that M8 is the only show in town.

 

[amateriat]

To a point ... my R4A doesn't quite have the build quality of the Hexar I owned but I rate it's metering as slightly superior. I was never really entirely happy with having to hold the shutter button halfway down to lock the exposure ... there was a fine line between locked and shot! 😛

I'll grant you that it's a matter of personal preference, but most of the AE cameras I've used worked this way in terms of "AE lock." The fact that there isn't yet another "dedicated" button on the Hexar for this, to me, is a decided advantage (which I was reminded of while using the Olympus C-8080 recently; it has a dedicated AE lock button).

As far as build quality, a Leica M7 might be a quarter-notch, at best, over a Hex RF, but where that will count, in the clutch, is a mystery for me. I've had my HRFs covered in snow (better not try that with an M8), in deep cold and worked with them in high heat. I don't hammer ten-penny nails in cordwood with them, but otherwise they've been tough machines. If they died tomorrow and I couldn't get them fixed for love or money, "life would go on, believe me" (think Beach Boys or, if you must, David Bowie), but my heart would sag a bit. They're the best cameras I've ever worked with, and I've had my share of really good cameras.


- Barrett

 

[alan davus]

Get the Hexar, it's a brilliant camera. Sure the repairability is a factor but it might go for 20 years or more without missing a beat. I love mine (and my M6 also) and have batterred and bruised it on many hiking trips and she's never missed a beat. I might be selfish here but I have a secret supply of eyepiece finders. If yours hasn't fallen off put a little blob of glue to hold it on. For the price you can get them, they're the best value RF on the market today.

 

[acall]

Get the Hexar, it's a brilliant camera. Sure the repairability is a factor but it might go for 20 years or more without missing a beat. I love mine (and my M6 also) and have batterred and bruised it on many hiking trips and she's never missed a beat. I might be selfish here but I have a secret supply of eyepiece finders. If yours hasn't fallen off put a little blob of glue to hold it on. For the price you can get them, they're the best value RF on the market today.

What would it take to reveal the source of finders? I am coming up zero in a search for one.

Alan

 

[SaraZoloft]

OK, gentleman: I'm now starting to rule out the Hexar. I don't want to use the KM lenses (I can't find any either and the body alone is going for $800-1100) and I don't want to chance any non-compatibility with Nokton & Biogon options. Am I wrong on thinking there might be? For the record I am more confused now than I was when first posting this 😱) A bright finder is REALLY important.


Soooooo It's the Bessa R2a or the Zeiss Ikon ZI. (the Hexar??) I'm ok with winding and the back door loading of the Ikon appeals to me. Both are .72 finders right? I'm also partial to 35mm lenses....

 

[acall]

OK, gentleman: I'm now ruling out the Hexar. I don't want to use the KM lenses (I can't find any either and the body alone is going for $800-1100) and I don't want to chance any non-compatibility with Nokton & Biogon options.


Soooooo It's the Bessa R2a or the Zeiss Ikon ZI. I'm ok with winding and the back door loading of the Ikon appeals to me. Both are .72 finders right? I'm also partial to 35mm lenses....

The finder on the ZI is enough to win that battle. Also, if you primarily shoot 35mm lenses, the 35 framelines on the ZI come up alone. The ZI with the 35/2 biogon is a pretty tough combo to beat for the price.

Alan

 

[Krosya]

OK, gentleman: I'm now ruling out the Hexar. I don't want to use the KM lenses (I can't find any either and the body alone is going for $800-1100) and I don't want to chance any non-compatibility with Nokton & Biogon options.


Soooooo It's the Bessa R2a or the Zeiss Ikon ZI. I'm ok with winding and the back door loading of the Ikon appeals to me. Both are .72 finders right? I'm also partial to 35mm lenses....

What are you talking about? There is NO issues with Hexar and Nokton/Biogon lenses. But as you wish......😕

 

[principe azul]

Alan, Matt Alofs went the DIY eyepiece route.

Have both the Hexar and the R4a, and use 25 and 35mm lenses on both. The full Hexar finder gives a good approximation of 25mm (both cameras have reasonably accurate framelines, i.e., they're not optimistically squeezed in into too high a finder magnification). My 35mm is the f/1.2 version, so I much prefer the Hexar for this, but the R4a will give good results all the time if not focusing particularly close.

The Hexar is better made, but I don't feel there's anything lacking in the Bessa: wind-on isn't as smooth as my old M4, but who cares? Well, probably me, otherwise I'd have sold it by now... 😱

Of the three cameras,

M4: best feel, most accurate focusing, draws most comments from other photographers, most respect from people who know it doesn't have a meter, most incredulity from people who think it's digital

R4a: best for wides, focusing accuracy a grey area for faster and longer lenses, but a stunning achievement for the focal lengths in which RF equipment excels

Hexar: best allrounder, and can shoot ISO 100 in full sun at f/2.8 (sunny 16) without a filter

The Hexar would be the one I'd keep, partly for its top shutter speed and meter, and partly because it's the best fit for the lenses I've chosen. Now if someone would remake it with 21mm framelines and an engraved script on the top plate, they'd have a winner...

 

[principe azul]

I have the same experience as Krosya. No issues with the Nokton 35/1.2 on the Hexar.

I'd read a lot of internet chat about these issues, and even though I couldn't reach a conclusion, it did make me wary - until a Hexar turned up at my favourite dealer.

 

[SaraZoloft]

....the shutter speed performance is a plus on that Hexar - I do live in Southern California where it tends to be a BIT sunny. The Bessa and the Ikon tap out at 1/2000. Besides I love shooing on proZ800. This may time some time... Until then I have my G1...

 

[kevin m]

The whole "lens compatibility" and "back focus" problem isn't a problem at all. It's too much free time, an internet connection and no real understanding of the issues involved. And that includes people who certainly should know better, but evidently don't. (I'm talking about Mr. Puts and his infamous "don't put a BMW motor into a Mercedes" remark.)

Movie cameras share a universal mount, and all lenses are adjusted to those specs. The M mount is the same. The only variable is that Konica's FFD specs overlap Leicas specs a bit. The likelihood of having any compatibility problem is very small, but should it arise, get your gear adjusted and be done with it.

 

[KoNickon]

As far as putting a BMW motor into a Mercedes goes, I only use the Hexanons on mine. They're great lenses and there's no need for any other glass.

Any electronically governed camera (including the Hexar, ZI and the RxA Bessas) has the potential issue of electronic parts crapping out with no replacements available. But there sure are a lot of 20+ year old battery-dependent cameras out there with no problems. I wouldn't let this issue unduly dictate your choice.

 

[infrequent]

can't believe that "back focus" and "non-compatibility" bs is still carrying on. actually i blame konica. their marketing team were a bigger putz than puts.

 

[kevin m]

actually i blame konica.

Yeah, they didn't handle the matter very well, did they?

 

[infrequent]

@kevin m - definitely not. maybe because they were the only one then who actually chose to challenge the leica hegemony that they get so much grief. there has been nothing but adulation for the later entrants like CV and Zeiss but apparently Konica engineers had no idea what they were doing.

of course Konica never dissuaded the rumours possibly because they didn't want to cut into the sales of their lenses. and maybe the merger distraction didn't help either.

 

[SaraZoloft]

I've just spotted a 2001 Hexar Limited edition for $1050.....

 

[tyrone.s]

I've just spotted a 2001 Hexar Limited edition for $1050.....

As others have said the Hexar is brilliant and there's no need to worry about Leica or Voigtlander or whatever M lenses not working. I listened to the Internet chatter and was worried. My main camera dealer uses, and has used a Hexar RF for the past 8 years, It's his always carry camera (and he has over a 1000 cameras in his collection) and so I simply double checked with him when I purchased my Hexar RF (a limited with no lens).

As he observed: no problems (and he uses many non-Konica lenses on it).

For what it's worth I find it impossible to believe that the Konica engineers could make such a fundamental mistake as to make a M-mount (or K-M mount) that mounts M lenses but doesn't actually work with them (I also find it hard to believe that every hand made Leica in the past 50 years would have exactly the same film plane measurement anyway). What I can believe is that the Konica engineers had a different conceptual understanding of film plane to lens element measurement.

If you care to double check on this look at:

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/hexarrf.html

and

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/flange.html

Dante is an excellent read and I particularly like his comment: "There are those who claim that it can be mathematically proven that Konica M-Hexanon lenses are somehow designed around a different register distance."

He then continues:

"The math actually says that they are not - and that the Hexar reaches the same register distance slightly differently."

This sounds like a Japanese solution to me (and I mean no disrespect when I say this).

At any rate Hexar's will never be Leica's - some people just can't accept that.

I wonder if there were similar pre-internet threads back in the 50's about non Leica brand screw mount lenses not working on Leicas?

 

[jbf]

Honestly if I were to ever upgrade to an M8 from my RD-1, i'd probably use a bessa as my film body. Cheap yet still reliable and a good 'bang for the buck'. Obviously its no leica as far as build, but even then the build is not horrible or bad.

 

[amateriat]

Alan, Matt Alofs went the DIY eyepiece route.
The Hexar would be the one I'd keep, partly for its top shutter speed and meter, and partly because it's the best fit for the lenses I've chosen. Now if someone would remake it with 21mm framelines and an engraved script on the top plate, they'd have a winner...

Well, they didn't "do" the 21mm framelines, but they did make a handful of models with engraved script on the top (old-school Konica logo) for their half-frame version of the Hex RF.

- Barrett