Help me clarify something, please !

[GeorgesGiralt]

Hi !
I own a Zorki-1 and a Zorki-3M. An I-22 and an Industar 61 L/D.
The I-22 came with the Z-1 and, guess what, the I61 with the Z3M.
The Z1+I22 give sharp picts. The Z3+I61 give sharp picts.
But if I focus the I22 on the Z3M, there is a .5m discrepancy at 1.5 m... (if I focus the Z3M with the I61 the scale says 2.5m, when I swap the I22 the scale says 3m) And I get the same result if I swap cameras.
Question : What's wrong ? What did I need to adjust first ?
TIA !

 

[wlewisiii]

If both give correctly focused images in use, then only the distance scale is off on one or possibly both lenses. Take a tape measure and find out what the actual focus distance is at a couple of points, then you can decide what you need to do.

William

 

[Spyderman]

Yes, check which one of the lenses reads correct distance.... wait! but how do you know which RF is good?

You should get a body with a known good RF, and then chceck it, because you don't know which of your 2 bodies is the good one...


IMHO the problem will be the I-61. Perhaps someone tinkered with it, and after cleaning the old grease put it together the wrong way. And then adjusted RF as if nothing else was wrong.
There is little probability that the wrong lens will be the I-22, because of its construction... and a high probability that the wrong one is the I-61, again - because of its construction.

 

[Nickfed]

Hi !
What's wrong ? What did I need to adjust first ?
TIA !

Probably nothing serious. Firstly, what are the pictures like? You don't say the pictures are no good when you swap lenses, so you need to separate the theory from the practice. Secondly, what is the rangefinder situation at infinity and how does the scale read?
I think the problem is most likely in the scale and it is clearly the place to look first. It doesn't do anything structural and just goes along for the ride.

There are only two types of 50mm lens - single thread rotating, like the I-22 and I-50, and double thread non rotating, like I-61. In the case of the latter the threads are the same and, and in the highly unlikely event that it has been stripped and assembled the wrong way, it wouldn't make any difference.

If the rangefinder is wrong, it will be uniformly wrong.

The only other aberration I can think of is that there is damage to the back of the I-22 in the 2.5m position. I think this should be visible on inspection.

Hope this helps.

 

[FrankS]

and in the highly unlikely event that it has been stripped and assembled the wrong way...

I'm thinking this is not so unlikely, especially if the person doing it is as tallented as I am at such things. 🙂

 

[Nickfed]

and in the highly unlikely event that it has been stripped and assembled the wrong way...

I'm thinking this is not so unlikely, especially if the person doing it is as tallented as I am at such things. 🙂

Don't badmouth yerself. You may not get it back together, but if you do, it went together the right way. The only exception to this is mis-matching a multi-start thread. In this event, the problem is clear, immediately obvious and the error uniform. It is also easily fixed.

 

[w3rk5]

I would pick one camera and lens combination first. Start off by checking my rangefinder at infinity. Make adjustments to get it perfectly aligned. This site may help. http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-123.html

Then foucs on something (with bold text is good) exactly 1 meter away. Measure the 1 meter distance from the film plain to the object. Does the object line up? Do this test to all the camera and lens combos.

After you post your results we can take the next step. Don't want to overwhelm you too much.

 

[Spyderman]

But which lens is the good one to use as reference?

I mean, if the I-61 had been striped and reassebmled incorrectly, the barrel on which the camera RF arm sits might stick too much or might stick too short from the lens. And if you calibrate the RF for this - it might still work - but only for this combo of lens and camera.

You should get a known good lens. I mean a lens that you know is good. Then calibrate both RF on both cameras according to this good lens. Then when you mount your lenses, you will know which lens is wrong i.e. which is messed up.

Then, when you know which lens is wrong, you can rethread it the right way. There is a nice tutorial on how to relube I-61 on Rick Oleson's page. I-22 is fairly easy to do even without any tutorial.

 

[w3rk5]

Good points Spyderman. The theory behind my madness is to get a reference point for the camera lens combo before you eventually start standardising the cameras and lenses in your arsenal. I don’t think you can get a true “known good lens”. It’ll be close enough but the final tweeking needs to be done using your own camera(s) and lenses. I have at my disposal 8 FSU lenses and a FED 3a and 2. I didn’t have to touch the shims on any of them. I can interchange between lens and camera with no problems.

It’s important not to make any adjustments to the rangefinder for the 1 meter reading (only for infinity) unless you’re ready to start standardising.

If none of the camera lens combo’s agrees at infinity and 1 meter, I would work on the combo that’s the most accurate.
Check the lens to film distance. It should be between 28.78-28.82mm.
Now readjust infinity so it lines up and recheck 1 meter.
The 1 meter should still be either front or back focusing.
Adjust the head on the range finder arm.
Readjust infinity so it lines up and recheck 1 meter.
Repeat the last 2 steps until infinity and 1 meter agrees.
Finally, take some test shots of object 1 meter away using f/5.6 or f/8.

I’m sure there are better ways. What I am suggesting is not written in stone. This is how I got my system to work together without a "known good lens". Good luck.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Well, I'm glad that was clear to you guys...

 

[comp_wiz101]

Personally, I'd use adjust one body to use the I-22 correctly and use it for reference.

 

[GeorgesGiralt]

Thanks folks !
So, here is that I'll do :
Measure the flange distance of my Zorkis. Adjust if needed.
Open my Z3-M and put a ground glass instead of film.
Put a lens on it and check for infinity using that distant tree seen from my window. If I'm fortunate enough, the lens will be at the infinity mark....
Do the same with the other lenses. (I've just got a J12 with a strange behaviour...)
This way, I'll be sure the body is good (film distance) and the lenses are well adjusted for infinity.
Now the range finder :
At infinity, I'll check that one lens is correctly coupled to the rangefinder on the Z3M (because i can double check using a ground glass) and swap lenses . If I'm fortunate enough, the I-22 and I-61 have good cams (the I-61 has not been dimantled because the painting on the screws is here and there is no marks on the screws).
I suspect I will have to adjust the rangefinder a bit for the 2 lenses to be in correct focus when the range finder said infinity. If I'm fortunate enough, when adjusted for one lens, it would be good for both, otherwise I'll have to double check my 1951 I-22 ramp for wear....
When this will be done, I'll have a camera which is good for the 2 lenses. Now the Zorki-1.
Normally, it gives me decently focussed picts using the I-22, so I'm quite confident about the rangefinder status...
I'll repeat the infinity test for both lenses and adjust the Z1 rangefinder in order to have the 2 lenses correctly focussed....
It is a bit complicated, but I think this is foolproof. The main problem will be if one lens does not show infinity when actually focussed at infinity... But we'll see !
Thanks guys !

 

[AndersG]

I would approach the adjustments in two steps:
(NOTE: I have used this method on my Canon 7, but lack of a special tool made the result messy - I had to make the rangefinder close focus adjustment by adding layers of tape to the rangefinder follower insted of using the appropriate adjustment. On FSU cameras this is easier.)

1. Verify that the lens' registry and focus scale are accurate. I do this by checking the focus with the lens set to infinity and 1m using ground glass and a loupe. At infinity I also use a SLR as a collimator.

2. Rangefinder adjustment. Once I know the lens is good, I check and adjust the rangefinder both at infinity and at close focus. The infinity adjustment is done with the horizontal alignment screw and the close focus adjustment is done by changing the position of the rangefinder follower. (On the canon this is done by an excentric nut while on most FSU cameras it is done by turning the teardrop shaped follower). This process has to be iterated as the two adjustments are not completely independent.

But again: I'm a novice so this procedure might not be a good one.
(However, for me it was comforting to to see that all my FSU lenses passed step 1. on my Canon with reasonable accuracy. The jury is still out on the rangefinder adjustment, though..)

Cheers,

Anders