Help me save a roll of FP4+

[Phantomas]

Yesterday a demonstration for Liberation of Cannabis was held downtown of Amsterdam. They had a stage set up with some guest speakers and lots of reggae (naturally). Some stands and information kiosks as well. Some stand was passing around free bong-hits. Hey, it’s Amsterdam ☺
I went around with my Bessa R3A and shot 3 rolls of film. My last roll was an old expired Ilford FP4+ (iso 125). That had the best shots (of course). As I was home and started to rewind the film I realized to my horror that the shutter dial was set on 1000 and has been there for the entire last roll! (I set it as I changed the film to fire first couple frames off quickly with the cap on and forgot to change it back to “A”).
As a result I believe the film to be underexposed in about somewhere 2 to 4 stops (Iso125 shot constantly at 1000 while should have been in 60 – 250 range).
I would really like to save the roll somehow through developing and postprocessing, but having only 3-4 month selfdeveloping experience would need some advice: I’m using Rodinal and standard developing time for FP4 at iso125 would be 15mins (1+50 dilution) and 26mis at iso250. What would be the best approach developing such underexposed film? Given the expiry factor I’d probably have to push it to 800 or 400 at least… Any ideas how to treat it in Rodinal would be welcome.

 

[wallace]

Although I love Rodinal for mf and low iso 35mm, I would change to xtol 1:1 in this case.
Easy to handle.
Check here for times:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=FP4&Developer=Xtol&mdc=Search

If in doubt, you could expose a test film under the same conditions before...
I suppose you will get really heavy grain with Rodinal...

Thomas (wallace)

 

[Austerby]

I wouldn't use Rodinal. Perhaps a speed-enhancing developer such as Microphen would be appropriate?

The suggestion to expose a test roll is an excellent one.

 

[Phantomas]

Thanks, I will look into using an alternative developer. Hopefully others will chime in as so far it's 1-1 between xtol and microphen. I order mine on internet and Rodinal is still new and should last very long but if it won't do than I'll order something else. Hopefully these chems don't expire soon.
No chance of re-testing FP4+ though. It was a random roll from a small match of decade-old film. I'm not fond of it enough to order more of the same.
And I realize the results will be far from perfect. Was just checking how to bring them to most acceptable shape given the circumstance.

 

[ed1k]

2-4 stops push... I am second for Xtol 1+1 or 1+3... If Xtol (it's minimal powder pack to make 5 liters!) is a bit expensive or you don't want waste 4.8 liters of developer, go with microphen then.

 

[dazedgonebye]

Don't visit the free sample stand so often and you won't have these problems.

;-)

 

[Phantomas]

Don't visit the free sample stand so often and you won't have these problems.

;-)

Heh, yes, that could be concluded but I didn't indulge in any offerings of the fest, otherwise I would be too paranoid to even pull out the camera, let alone stick it in peoples faces.
I did get a lot of shots of people consuming it in all forms and shapes though. That is, if I manage to save that FP4.

 

[MartinP]

Using Microphen (which can also be used as a general every-day developer) Ilford give a time at 200asa which should give results of excellent quality. Pushing a couple of stops from that should give you something, at least.

Microphen is a powder, which might involve finding mixing jugs and a bottle to store the mixed developer etc. etc. For about €15 you can buy a litre of Ilford DD-X, which would be just as good as Microphen for you in this case, and which is a liquid mixed 1+4 (though you can try lower dilutions for economy reasons).

As a more general developer which can still do the job, you could also look at ID11 which does 'everything'. It might be easier to find than Microphen. It really depends what brands are available to you, as most of the manufacturers make speed-increasing developers of some sort.

When you get some results, I'm sure we would all be interested in knowing how the negs turned out, just to add to the sum of knowledge about this sort of thing !
🙂

 

[Al Kaplan]

...and Ilford ID11 and Kodak D-76 are the same developer, in case you can't locate any ID11.

 

[Phantomas]

sonofdanang - that looks very reassuring. I'll give a try to one of the developers mentioned. Getting something that mixes into 5L might be overkill for me.
Next question would be - how far would FP4 allow to be pushed? Can I try higher than 400, or is that a sensible maximum and try the rest in postprocessing?

 

[Fotohuis]

Any speed enhancing developer:

DD-X
Microphen
Acu-1
Diafine (but then you can not control the C.I. anymore)
Xtol

In these kind of situations Microphen or Acu-1 (about the same) is your best choice to make the best out of your negatives.

Develop according iso 800 and hope for the best 🙂

Best regards,

Robert

 

[Phantomas]

I'm about to order. Split between Microphen and HC-110 (they don't carry Xtol, who makes it?) Decisions decisions...
I'll post the results once done, if anything come out.

 

[Fotohuis]

Here the data of Acu-1 (the one shot version of Acufine) made by BKA Chicago, USA.

http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Diafine_Acu-1_BKA.pdf

You can make the standard calculation to iso 800. In the table you have 11 minutes at 21 degrees C. for a push processing FP4+ to iso 200.

best regards,

Robert

 

[Fotohuis]

For push +2F (from iso 200 to 800):

+2F tijd * 1,33² = 11 * 1,77 = 19:45 minutes.

Acu-1 is available in 1 Quart/950ml packing.​

 

[drewbarb]

Sorry to hear about this; doesn't it always seem to be the way that if you completely screw up the exposure on a roll your best shots from any shooting session will be on that roll? Murphy's Law.

Anyway, here's my recommendation: shoot a test roll of FP4 at the same EI of 1000, and cut it into two or three lengths for testing to tweak your processing. Load up the first piece and save the others in a spare developing can. Now you can try two or three developers and processing regimens on unimportant film to find the best process for your good roll.

As for what soup to use, I will add my vote for processing in Microphen. For years, this developer has consistently given me the best results from push processing with all sorts of films. Use it straight- not the usual 1:1 dilution- for best speed increasing results. I don't have a start time for FP4 shot at EI 1000 in my notes, but I'd suggest you start at around 19 minutes- good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

 

[Phantomas]

Thanks everyone!

For push +2F (from iso 200 to 800):

+2F tijd * 1,33² = 11 * 1,77 = 19:45 minutes.​

Acu-1 is available in 1 Quart/950ml packing.​

Interesting, being new at developing I haven't thoroughly researched push/pulling yet. Is that formula universal? If 1.33 power 2 = two stop push, am I correct to assume that 3 stops would be 1.33 power of 3? (and tijd = developing time at native speed?) A little explanation would be helpful as this looks like a formula I'll need to memorize.

 

[Fotohuis]

Yes those formulas are pretty universal and are valid till approx. +3F stops for most films. In this way you can calculate your new theoretical developing time.

Some more explanation is done on our website:
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Ontwikkeltijden.pdf

Unfortunately in Dutch only 🙂

But also for your FP4+ film there are some suggestions on the Ilford-Harman website in their PDF file.
Push processing is with a good speed enhancing developer max. 2/3F - 1F stop, the rest is comming from the C.I. (Contrast Index = Gamma) by a steeper log D curve.
So you will loose all detail in the shadows by this push processing but in this case everything is better then an almost blank negative.

Your luck is that FP4+ is a pretty forgiving film so with the right advise and development I am sure you can "save" your film.

 

[ed1k]

I'm about to order. Split between Microphen and HC-110 (they don't carry Xtol, who makes it?) Decisions decisions...
I'll post the results once done, if anything come out.

Kodak makes Xtol, this is phenidon based developer with ascorbic acid. This formula keeps well controlled contrast even with a good push. Kodak discontinued small packs (developer is mixed out of two powders A and B) and now minimal pack is for 5L. However, stock solution in 0.5L soda bottles keeps very good and lasts 6 months minimum. Microphen, being phenidon based developer as well, takes everything out of emulsion giving maximum density for a light quantum. Any phenidon based developer, especially low contrast one as Xtol, will work for you best. Of course, virtually any developer may be used for push processing. AGFA Rodinal, say 1+50, with increased development time will also work.

 

[Phantomas]

Hi! I'm back 🙂

Well, that took me long, didn't it. 5 months since asking the question, almost as much since developing film and only today I got to posting them and remembered this thread. Some people even emailed me some handy push/pull charts and more advice. So I wanted to come back to say thanks, it worked!
To be honest I don't even remember how I developed it, I don't usually take notes. Only remember it was in Microphen and pushed a lot.
Anyway, below are the results. Of course they are not excellent, but I like them. As you can see the grain got out of control, but that's OK too. Plus the film was very old.
Here you go, thanks people!
(And I'm posting so many because I like most of the roll, so it was worth saving, to me at least).

Cannabis Liberation Demonstration in Amsterdam (worry not, cannabis has long been liberated here, this is all just corporate sponsored activities) 🙂 all on "rescued" FP4+

I've ended up with quite a few other shots plus a couple of TMax rolls, but I won't bore you further.