Help Needed: Focssing My Folder

[sooner]

Hi Folks,

Sorry for this truly dumb question, but I received a beautiful Zeiss Ikon 520 folder yesterday and am currently shooting a test roll. But I can't figure out how to focus it, or specifically where to focus it. I mean, there are the two red dots to line up if you want the fail safe method, but if you want to focus at exactly 1.2 meters, for example, where do you line up the 1.2? And why does the lens turn in each direction only so far, so if you want 3 meters to infinity you turn one direction, but if you then want to focus at less than 3 meters you have to turn the lens all the way in the opposite direction. It's confusing, at least to me. Do you just line up the preferred distance with the opposite red dot? Is it that simple? Please confirm. Thanks.

 

[David Goldfarb]

You just line up the distance with the red dot. It's that simple.

 

[Luddite Frank]

Which lens is on your 520 ? ( Zeiss offered several)

Also, what film-type(120, 620, 616) and which format is your camera (4,5x6; 6x6; 6x9; 6,5 x 11, etc ) - should be stamped on the inside of the camera back. Again, Zeiss made the 520 in several sizes.

The focusing is achieved by turning the front element of the lens, which is mounted in a screw-device (helix). When the lens is screwed-in all the way clockwise (looking at the front of the camera), and stops at "Infinity" (or the google symbol), the lens is at its closest position to the film plane.

When you turn the lens the opposite way, to focus on subjects closer than 100 meters, the lens moves further out, away from the film plane. (Turn the focus while looking at the lens from the side: you should see it move nearer/further from the shutter housing)

This is the basic principle on which cameras with adjustable focus have worked for over 100 years: moving the lens nearer/further away from the film plane to achieve a sharp image.

On cameras where you focus by turning the
front element of the lens, there's usually a "stop" at Infinity and at the closest focusing distance, so that you can't accidentally unscrew the front element from the camera.

I have an Ikonta 521 with Novar 75 lens, that has a little screw-pin sticking out from the focusing ring: this stops against a little black tab projecting from the shutter, at either focusing limit.

Usually the red dots ( or triangle, or other symbol, somewhere around 3 meters / 12 ft) represent the "hyperfocal distance" for general "point & shoot"; there is also a corresponding mark on the f-stop scale, usually around f 11.


If you're still unsure where the "index" mark is for focusing, try screwing the lens all the way in to Infinity (clockwise, facing the camera): look at the meter scale on the lens ring, and see where the "Inf" or google symbol (8 on its side) lines-up on the shutter housing. Now screw the lens out the opposite way until it stops again, now look for the minimum focusing distance (1.5 meters ?) to line-up at the same place on the shutter housing... (usually, the lens turns a bit past the nearest marked distance before it hits the stop.).

See if that helps... (sorry I don't have my 521 in hand for reference).

Good luck !

Luddite Frank

 

[sooner]

Frank, it's a 120 film 6x45 520, if that helps. I may be an idiot but I may also have a problem because the first roll of Velvia came out not very sharp. Pics weren't exactly blurry, but they weren't sharp and some more so than others. I mostly shot with the two red dots lining up at f11, but infinity wasn't usually in focus. I had better luck with closer focus. When I did as you suggested and rotated the lens all the way clockwise, it didn't stop at infinity but at 3 meters. On the opposite side from the red dot is a metal protrusion with a white line on it to stop the lens from rotating too far, so now I'm wondering if that is the line to use to line up the focus. Any ideas what's going on here?

 

[FallisPhoto]

Frank, it's a 120 film 6x45 520, if that helps. I may be an idiot but I may also have a problem because the first roll of Velvia came out not very sharp. Pics weren't exactly blurry, but they weren't sharp and some more so than others. I mostly shot with the two red dots lining up at f11, but infinity wasn't usually in focus. I had better luck with closer focus. When I did as you suggested and rotated the lens all the way clockwise, it didn't stop at infinity but at 3 meters. On the opposite side from the red dot is a metal protrusion with a white line on it to stop the lens from rotating too far, so now I'm wondering if that is the line to use to line up the focus. Any ideas what's going on here?

Sounds to me like (1) You were shooting close up at wide apertures and didn't guess the distance right, or (2) your camera is out of adjustment or (3) you have some crud in/on your lens or (4) your subject was closer to the lens than the hyperfocal distance would allow for. If it were a rangefinder camera, you could also add (5), the rangefinder being out of adjustment, to the list.

These problems can be solved in the following manner:
(1) get an auxilliary rangefinder and replace the camera's folding viewfinder with a cold shoe to hold it. This is an auxilliary rangefinder: http://mattdentonphoto.com/cameras/telex_rangefinder.html
(2) and (3) disassemble lens and reassemble it correctly, after cleaning it.
(4) find out what range the hyperfocal distance covers for your lens and make sure your subject is inside this range.

It is also possible that you have something really weird going on here, like someone installed a lens from a Bessa on your Zeiss.

 

[sooner]

Thanks for the extra comments. The more I think about it, and based on Frank's suggestion, I think the focusing mark is in fact not the red dot but the little white line on top of the protruding metal to stop the lens from rotating past the infinity or 1.2 meter marks. That makes sense. I've got a roll of b&w ready for developing where I tested focusing against the white mark, so we'll see if that does it. Memphis, I knew to expect a soft look with this old lens, but in a fairly close up shot of a church you can't even make out individual bricks...is that to be expected, or was that just my focusing problem?

 

[sooner]

Here are a couple of pictures of the folder. I'll try to get one later of the actual points on the lens that might be the points of focus. As I said, now I'm thinking it's not the red dot but the white line on the metallic protrusion on the left, which aligns perfectly with the infinity symbol screwed all the way in clockwise.

 

[Bluesman]

This is what my shutter/lens assembly looks like (6x9 530/2):

Red dot(s) - and on the opposite side of the barrel, the focusing mark )the triangle mark between ZEISS and IKON), and the focused distance when the red dots line up.

Dunno if this helps.

Cheers /Richard

 

[Luddite Frank]

Sooner,

Sorry not to reply quicker...

Thanks for the pics (thanks also to Bluesman)...

The white line scribed on the stop tab is probably your index mark.

Apparently the Rangefinder-equipped Super-Ikontas did not have a stop-tab, as the RF mechanism provides the limits to prevent unscrewing the front element from the shutter assembly.

The red marks are for when you want to simplify picture taking, and just to do 'point & shoot' , relying on depth-of field to create reasonably sharp images for subjects located between about 12 feet and Infinity.

To go this route, line the red dot on the focusing ring up with the index tab, then set to the aperture lever to the red dot on the f-stop scale (around f 11): now you're set for Point & Shoot. Use the shutter speeds to adjust for varying light.

With my 521 Ikonta (f 4,5 Novar 75mm in Prontor S shutter), if I'm holding the camera "vertically" (viewfinder on the left side, apeture scale on top of shutter, camera bed on bottom), the focusing stop-tab/ index is a black tab, about 2 to 3 mm wide, projecting from the shutter.
With the lens cranked all the way in to Infinity, the stop-pin is to the right side of the tab, and the google symbol is just to the left of the tab. For setting distances shorter than Infinity, I line-up the appropriate hash-mark on the lens ring with the left edge of the stop-tab.

The Compur-equipped cameras may be set-up slightly differently...

I just got a Super-Ikonta 530 6x9 that I'm looking forward to shooting... shutter needs a CLA though...

I really want a 645 Super-Ikonta (Rangefinder), but they're pretty pricey...

Good luck with your 520; I love the little 645 folders - so compact !

Luddite Frank

 

[FallisPhoto]

The little silver arrow between the words Zeiss and Ikon is the index mark for focusing. If it doesn't line up with the infinity mark, and if it isn't focusing properly, then someone has probably taken the lens elements out for cleaning at some point and has not put it all back together right. This means that you need to recalibrate your lens. The good news is that it isn't that hard to do.

If you look between the index marks for 1.5 meters and 1.7 meters on the lens ring, you will see a set screw. There should be at least two more of them on that ring. What you are going to have to do is get a small piece of ground glass, open the back of the camera, and point it at the moon on a clear night. Tape the ground glass tight to the film rails, with the ground side against the rails. Adjust the focus until you get the sharpest possible image of the moon on the ground glass (with the shutter set on B, at your widest f/stop). Then you loosen those set screws and adjust the ring until it is showing infinity. Then tighten the set screws, remove the piece of ground glass and you're done.

 

[sooner]

Well first of all, I feel somewhat vindicated by the fact that others thought the red dot was the focusing mark, when it turns out to be the white hash mark on the opposite side of the lens. I developed my second test roll last night (b&w) and first impressions look good on the focus issue, but I haven't scanned the negs yet or looked at them closely with a loupe. I will do so tonight, try to scan a few, and share the results here. If it is still a little off, it's good to know I can recalibrate the lens, thanks to your instructions above, FallisPhoto. Thanks to all for your help. I'll report more tonight.

 

[Luddite Frank]

Suggest you scrutinize test roll #2 with a loupe and maybe shoot a 3rd roll before tinkering with the lens...

I took my Super-Ikonta 6x9 out for its first test roll today...

Good luck !

LF

 

[Bluesman]

So did I (first test roll on SUper Ikonta). Funny. Into a souterrain dark, cold garage where there is an old car being restored.

Fortepan 200, 1/15, f4,5, handheld. Nice premiere with this 6x9 format for me. Good luck with yours!

http://homeweb.mah.se/~lurija/6x9_verkstad.jpg

Cheers /Richard

 

[FallisPhoto]

Well first of all, I feel somewhat vindicated by the fact that others thought the red dot was the focusing mark, when it turns out to be the white hash mark on the opposite side of the lens. I developed my second test roll last night (b&w) and first impressions look good on the focus issue, but I haven't scanned the negs yet or looked at them closely with a loupe. I will do so tonight, try to scan a few, and share the results here. If it is still a little off, it's good to know I can recalibrate the lens, thanks to your instructions above, FallisPhoto. Thanks to all for your help. I'll report more tonight.

You are welcome -- and I am absolutely certain that the silver triangle is the focusing index mark. I have a pair of Nettars and a Super Ikonta and on all three it is the silver tirangle.

 

[Luddite Frank]

I find all the Zeiss variants a little overwhelming, at this point (novice)...

From what I've read here & there on RFF, the same basic Zeiss camera in a series (format/film size) was available with a couple different choices of lens/shutter, depending on price bracket of the camera...

Entry level offerings often had slow Nettar Anastigmats in Klio shutters, middle-priced might have Novar lens in a Prontor shutter , and the high-end models had Tessars in a Compur or Compur-Rapid shutter... and I'm sure that's just scratching the surface.

My Super-Ikonta 530/2 with Tessar /Compur has the white (nickel) triangle between "Zeiss" and "Ikon"; my Ikonta 521 with Novar /Prontor-S does not have the triangle; I'm not sure it even says Zeiss-Ikon on the shutter... oy !

LF

 

[sooner]

Well, to my eyes the scans prove my focusing is now okay using the white triangle mark, not the red dot. I'm attaching several pics. But these pictures show my usual problem developing TriX 320; for some reason I get soft scans and tons of grain. I tried using HC110 dilution H this time, with agitation only once every 60 seconds, but I still get huge grain. Anyway, at least the focus mystery is solved.

 

[sooner]

By the way, Bluesman, nice picture. I'm envious of the nice tones without distracting grain.

 

[Bluesman]

Sooner - you shouldn´t be - those shots are fine, especially the one with the kids. Soft scans: what scanner, what settings? It could be the scanner...how do the negs look? Soft with any camera, or just this one? Anyway - keep going. That is looking good.

Cheers /Richard

 

[David Goldfarb]

Sorry for misunderstanding your initial description. Obviously from the picture, the index mark is the silver triangle.

 

[sooner]

Richard/Bluesman, thanks for the words of encouragement. I use a Epson 4490 flatbed scanner, and should be receiving the betterscanning film holder any day to help keep the film flat. I'm really hoping that makes the difference, or perhaps the adjustable holder will help me find proper focusing distance for the scanner, 'cause most of my scans come out much softer than other people's using the same scanner. Or maybe my refurb unit is just a dud...we'll see.