Help with Light Leak on Rolleiflex 2.8B

[jwicaksana]

Hi Folks,

I have done my research and read related posts about this but still can't be sure about what is causing this on my Rollei. I will try to make this detailed and complete so it can serve as future reference for others that might have the same problem. (I sincerely wish all your Rolleis are leak free tho. 😉 )

So I received four developed rolls from the lab, only to find that there is a massive leak, and frame spacing problem (less than 12 frames in a roll)

First roll, Lomography Redscale
9 frames in the roll, sunny outside, some frames are leaking, a few are not



Second roll, Kodak Pro 160s
10 frames in the roll



Third roll, Kodak Pro 160s
I remember that I inserted some tissue along the groove in the camera back - significantly less leak, I would say?


Fourth roll, Fuji 400H
The tissue has gotten flat by now, so not as strong sealing as before maybe?


Now I have found that there are some screws missing on the body, as follows:




Other than that, I made the following observations:
- Camera back is not exactly straight, if placed on a table there is a rocking motion on opposite corners, probably a little less than 1mm motion.
- There is no hinge, so opening the back means removing it completely. Does this affect light tightness?
- I have placed a strip of Aki Asahi foam on the channel where the back meets the body (near the hood, parallel to the hinge)
- And with the addition of the tissue, the back is locking solidly in place, no gap or movement.

I'd really love to hear your suggestions on this, I know a thorough CLA by a good repairman is what I need, but given my exchange rate to USD said job needs careful planning and I want to try something I can do myself, or at least have a proper approach plan to this matter.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this, let's save this babe and let me keep rolling with her.

 

[JoeV]

Jonathan, I have little experience with this camera, but in general the light trap surfaces should be well darkened with something like their original finish in terms of reflectivity. If there are areas along the light trap (where you put the felt material) where bare metal is showing, the light trap can be ineffective even with felt installed. If it were mine, I'd be tempted to apply some matte black model paint with a fine brush to those bare metal areas along the light trap.

Not sure about the missing screws, but little squares of gaffers tape could cover them just as a test.

Good luck, keep us posted on your results.

~Joe

PS: From the film scans it's obvious the major leak is at the top right corner of the film back.

 

[jwicaksana]

Hi Joe, thanks for pointing the source of the leak. I am trying to find which part of the right hand side that causes it. As for the light trap, here it is, but this was done just this morning and I have not ran any roll thru it.

 

[JoeV]

On the inside of the lid near the top, I'd advise painting the bare metal surfaces along the edge. In that bottom photo, that would be the vertical edge near the left side, which should correspond to the light leak along the right side of the camera chamber. The edge of the camera opening also has bare metal showing, I recommend painting that too.

Any metal surface that's inside the camera chamber should not have bare metal showing, as it's too reflective.

~Joe

 

[hanskerensky]

You wrote that the hinges for the back are missing. Guess that is why there are missing screws. You really need hinges to get that back seated properly and light tight.

 

[jwicaksana]

On the inside of the lid near the top, I'd advise painting the bare metal surfaces along the edge. In that bottom photo, that would be the vertical edge near the left side, which should correspond to the light leak along the right side of the camera chamber. The edge of the camera opening also has bare metal showing, I recommend painting that too.

Any metal surface that's inside the camera chamber should not have bare metal showing, as it's too reflective.

~Joe

Thank you Joe, I note that there is still the original finish on the inner side of the door, and I'd like to wait and try other things before I do something permanent like painting it. Thanks again!

You wrote that the hinges for the back are missing. Guess that is why there are missing screws. You really need hinges to get that back seated properly and light tight.

Hi Hans, yes there's supposed to be one screw on each side for the hinge. Where do you reckon I can purchase replacement hinges and screws? Many thanks.

 

[Highway 61]

Other than cannibalizing another Rolleiflex from the same era, this will be a difficult task.

The screws don't have a metric thread.

There are people out there at eBay selling Rolleiflex wrecks and parts. Many of them are located in India. They don't set their prices quite low, in general.

Given the general condition of the camera I probably wouldn't bother and I would just use black fabric adhesive tape to firmly wrap the camera back while using this Rollei.

 

[Evanjoe610]

Jonathan,

I see that you are located in Indonesia. Why not contact Phil Tay in Singapore and see if he has any spare parts to sell you? At least he would be able to source it for your from the other vendors he knows there.

 

[rick oleson]

Either the bent back or the missing hinge pin will cause light leaks. Both together, pretty much guarantees them. If you can't find a replacement back, it might be possible to fabricate a replacement for the hinge pin.

Of course, finding a 2.8B donor camera is unlikely - but I THINK a back from an f/3.5 Automat from the same time period should work (I'm not positive on this).

 

[jwicaksana]

Other than cannibalizing another Rolleiflex from the same era, this will be a difficult task.

The screws don't have a metric thread.

There are people out there at eBay selling Rolleiflex wrecks and parts. Many of them are located in India. They don't set their prices quite low, in general.

Given the general condition of the camera I probably wouldn't bother and I would just use black fabric adhesive tape to firmly wrap the camera back while using this Rollei.

I've seen said listings on eBay but I agree prices are not too low for what they are. I'll keep an eye open for possible sources. Thanks! 🙂

Jonathan,

I see that you are located in Indonesia. Why not contact Phil Tay in Singapore and see if he has any spare parts to sell you? At least he would be able to source it for your from the other vendors he knows there.

Joe, I have called Mr. Tay about a week ago, and he said he can only quote me on parts once he inspected the camera. And he quotes the same price as a few noted repairman in the US, so I was considering the possibility of sending it to the States, where I assume parts are more readily available?

Either the bent back or the missing hinge pin will cause light leaks. Both together, pretty much guarantees them. If you can't find a replacement back, it might be possible to fabricate a replacement for the hinge pin.

Of course, finding a 2.8B donor camera is unlikely - but I THINK a back from an f/3.5 Automat from the same time period should work (I'm not positive on this).

Hi Rick, nice to see you here. Can bent back be straightened with proper tools by a skilled repairman? I will try at least to cover the holes caused by the missing screws and try again. Thanks Rick.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Can you see an opening of the upper screw holes into the film spool chamber? I don't have a Rollei handy at the moment, but I think that the hinge screw is above and outside of the film chamber area.

I'd get rid of the foam you installed. Rollei backs are pretty well self-aligning and self-sealing. Foam will only push and stress and lead to leaks. Try taping the outside of the door instead of putting foam on the inside. At the most I would have only one layer of foam, not the two that you show.

Look at the bottom of the back. Any leaks at any of the feet or at the tripod screw hole?

'Adjusting' the back of a Rollei is most often a matter of bending the thing. If you ahve experience with bending aluminum and a soft touch, it isn't too diffucult to straighten a back. The light traps on the back are pretty effective, and usually if you can close the back it won't need to be bent much at all. Bent feet, a different matter!

Maybe I missed the answer- does the leak go beyond the image frame, or does it stop at the edge of the image? This can tell you a lot.

Now you also say that you are getting less than 12 images on a roll. Is it the first 2 or three shots that don't appear? Most likely the Automat feeler mechanism is out of whack and tripping early- when you close the back- or randomly later in the roll. It's not a difficult adjustment, but it does mean taking off the side plate. In this thread the Automat adjustment area is circled in yellow-
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149956

 

[jwicaksana]

Can you see an opening of the upper screw holes into the film spool chamber? I don't have a Rollei handy at the moment, but I think that the hinge screw is above and outside of the film chamber area.

I'd get rid of the foam you installed. Rollei backs are pretty well self-aligning and self-sealing. Foam will only push and stress and lead to leaks. Try taping the outside of the door instead of putting foam on the inside. At the most I would have only one layer of foam, not the two that you show.

Look at the bottom of the back. Any leaks at any of the feet or at the tripod screw hole?

'Adjusting' the back of a Rollei is most often a matter of bending the thing. If you ahve experience with bending aluminum and a soft touch, it isn't too diffucult to straighten a back. The light traps on the back are pretty effective, and usually if you can close the back it won't need to be bent much at all. Bent feet, a different matter!

Maybe I missed the answer- does the leak go beyond the image frame, or does it stop at the edge of the image? This can tell you a lot.

Now you also say that you are getting less than 12 images on a roll. Is it the first 2 or three shots that don't appear? Most likely the Automat feeler mechanism is out of whack and tripping early- when you close the back- or randomly later in the roll. It's not a difficult adjustment, but it does mean taking off the side plate. In this thread the Automat adjustment area is circled in yellow-
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149956

Hi Dan, I did press a pen light against every exposed screw hole in dark room, but none is actually leaking light to the film chamber. I am planning to tape the holes with a black tape just to be sure.

That makes a perfect sense that a foam will stretch the back and possibly lead to leak. Should I remove both sides? If I were to leave one side on, is it the body side or the back side that should stay? What about the ones on the groove along the sides on the back - do I need to get rid of those too? In my defense even now with the foam on both sides, the back closes solidly with no gap. Without the foam, there is a slight 'play' between the back and the body.

The bottom side looks pretty solid. The back closes nicely, it's just when back is closed and the camera is placed on a table, there is a slight rocking motion.

I will check the negative if it's the first or last frames not appearing, and if the leak extends outside of the frame area. Thanks a lot Dan.

 

[jwicaksana]

Update: Last night I cleaned all the foams off so now it's back to its original state. Haven't had the chance to look at the negatives though.