Help! Zorki 4 stopped working

[Peter_wrote:]

While cocking my Zorki 4, it suddenly made some ugly noise. It is cocked now, but the shutter won't fire.
Although i was careful, my first thought was, that I may have forgotten to select the speed after cocking. I did the usual tricks, and also removed the top now.
I don't think that the fault is wrong speed selecting anymore. To me everything seems ok there. No pin broken, and as far i understand the speed selecting problem would cause the pin (green marked) sitting on the wrong side of the pin red marked. Just to be completely sure I added a picture. Can anybody confirm, that everything is ok there?

So when the problem wasn't wrong speed setting, where else could i have a look? Anybody with some idea?
I also removed the front plate. I see no broken gears and so on. The two smaller rollers on the right side both seem to have tension.
When i look into the film chamber I see, that the shutter button is going far enough while beeing pressed to free that little gear at the bottom, which should normally rotate then...

 

[JoeV]

I'm unfamiliar with the Zorki's internals, but have you tried adjusting the knurled ring around the shutter button, it has two positions? There's also the button itself, which also rotates to give two more settings (though I can't recall, this early in the morning, what those settings do, but I do think they effect the shutter's operation and film advance).

Good luck.

~Joe

 

[Peter_wrote:]

hi Joe,

thank you.
these to settings are for locking the shutter (e.g. for bulb mode) and for rewinding the film. (unfortunately) these two settings should be ok. I can press the shutter, it just won't fire.

 

[Peter_wrote:]

Following joe's hints I made two more observations.

When putting the shutter button into rewind mode, i cannot turn the marked cylinder clockwise (which i assume should be possible then). BUT the shutter is still cocked. So maybe this is just a consequence...

And furthermore when pressing the shutter (like in the picture) I can turn the marked cylinder or the film winding knob anti clockwise as much as i want. Don't know if this is a normal behavior...

 

[KnipsOmat]

When putting the shutter button into rewind mode, i cannot turn the marked cylinder clockwise (which i assume should be possible then). BUT the shutter is still cocked.

If the collar around the shutter release is in rewind position, the sprocket should move freely (in both directions), as it is completely disengaged from the rest.

While you put it in rewind position, watch the small "gear" (it's not really a gear, but it looks somewhat like one) with the pin on it below the bottom end of the sprocket. While you turn the rewind collar, this should move down and the pin on the "gear" should disengage from the pin on the sprocket.

As soon as this happens, the shutter should fire, as it is only held against the spring tension by this pin connection.

The same should happen when you press the shutter release. "Gear" with pin going down, pins disengage, shutter fires.

If the pins do not disengage, something's wrong with your rewind collar and / or shutter release mechanics.

If the pins do disengage, but still the shutter does not fire, it's either not cocked or something's wrong with your shutter. Main reasons I could think of is either no tension on springs or the ribbons of the shutter curtains are no longer glued to the spring rollers or have been ripped off.

Either way, this means you're into a complete disassembly of the shutter, as the springs won't simply lose tension without something's being broken inside.

Are you shure the shutter is still cocked?

And furthermore when pressing the shutter (like in the picture) I can turn the marked cylinder or the film winding knob anti clockwise as much as i want. Don't know if this is a normal behavior...

It's not. When pressing the shutter, you can move the sprocket anti-clockwise (normal film transport direction). While doing so, the take-up spool should move as well and you should hear some finely clicking noises as you move the gears. You should not be able to turn the sprocket clockwise (film rewind direction) though, when the rewind collar is not in rewind position.

From your description, I'd suspect something being wrong with shutter release / rewind mechanics.

Hope this helps,
Andreas

 

[Peter_wrote:]

thanks a lot for your help!

If the collar around the shutter release is in rewind position, the sprocket should move freely (in both directions), as it is completely disengaged from the rest.

While you put it in rewind position, watch the small "gear" (it's not really a gear, but it looks somewhat like one) with the pin on it below the bottom end of the sprocket. While you turn the rewind collar, this should move down and the pin on the "gear" should disengage from the pin on the sprocket.

As soon as this happens, the shutter should fire, as it is only held against the spring tension by this pin connection.

after some tries this works so far. sprocket moves freely. but sometimes the two pins hinder each other. then i have to press the shutter in addition. so this seems not to be the main problem.

The same should happen when you press the shutter release. "Gear" with pin going down, pins disengage, shutter fires.

If the pins do not disengage, something's wrong with your rewind collar and / or shutter release mechanics.

shutter button works perfectly. pins disengage completely, but the gear at the bottom still not fires.

If the pins do disengage, but still the shutter does not fire, it's either not cocked or something's wrong with your shutter. Main reasons I could think of is either no tension on springs or the ribbons of the shutter curtains are no longer glued to the spring rollers or have been ripped off.

ribbons are glued to the spring rollers. i also turned the two small rollers at the right side a bit with my fingers and both seem to have tension.

Are you shure the shutter is still cocked?

shutter is still cocked.

It's not. When pressing the shutter, you can move the sprocket anti-clockwise (normal film transport direction). While doing so, the take-up spool should move as well and you should hear some finely clicking noises as you move the gears. You should not be able to turn the sprocket clockwise (film rewind direction) though, when the rewind collar is not in rewind position.

i expressed myself a bit unclear. i meant anti-clockwise when looking at the cylinder from above. so the sprockets could be turned to the right side.
so this works as described by you and is ok.


so it seems to be a problem with the shutter. i assume somewhere between the big shutter curtain drum and the shutter release.

 

[wolves3012]

The photos you've posted and the fact you can turn the sprockets while the shutter button is pressed is all normal. What's abnormal, of course , is your shutter doesn't fire. Once the two pins are separated (bottom of the second photo) there are only a couple of things that can prevent the shutter firing, given tension on the rollers (which you have).

One is that there is something jamming the restrictor gears found in the bottom of the shutter mechanism. The other is the pin that is operated by the slow-speed escapement is failing to disengage.

To check the former, you'll need to do a lot more disassembly. To check the latter, you'll need to remove the slow-speed escapement and physically push the latch back and hold it while firing the shutter. I'd be inclined to check the second one first, because it's a lot less work. If you decide to remove the slow-speed escapement, please read the sticky "Zorki 4/4K HOW TO CLA" before you do. That will explain how to make sure it goes back properly.

 

[batterytypehah!]

Did you try a cable release? That always did the trick for me.

My 4 locked up so often I finally gave it away.

 

[Peter_wrote:]

Did you try a cable release? That always did the trick for me.

Unfortunately doesn't work with cable release either.

The photos you've posted and the fact you can turn the sprockets while the shutter button is pressed is all normal. What's abnormal, of course , is your shutter doesn't fire. Once the two pins are separated (bottom of the second photo) there are only a couple of things that can prevent the shutter firing, given tension on the rollers (which you have).

One is that there is something jamming the restrictor gears found in the bottom of the shutter mechanism. The other is the pin that is operated by the slow-speed escapement is failing to disengage.

To check the former, you'll need to do a lot more disassembly. To check the latter, you'll need to remove the slow-speed escapement and physically push the latch back and hold it while firing the shutter. I'd be inclined to check the second one first, because it's a lot less work. If you decide to remove the slow-speed escapement, please read the sticky "Zorki 4/4K HOW TO CLA" before you do. That will explain how to make sure it goes back properly.

Thanks for your help. So I will have a look at the pin that is operated by the slow-speed escapement next.
I am afraid though, that something is jamming more inside of the shutter mechanism, because of the ugly noise I heard while cocking.
So I think, that the malfunction must be somewhere, which was in action while cocking too.

 

[KnipsOmat]

So I will have a look at the pin that is operated by the slow-speed escapement next.
I am afraid though, that something is jamming more inside of the shutter mechanism, because of the ugly noise I heard while cocking.
So I think, that the malfunction must be somewhere, which was in action while cocking too.

If it's not the slow speeds - and I don't believe it is, as according to above image you haven't set a slow speed currently - your next best bet is the gears on the bottom of the big shutter curtain drum and the restrictor gear.

To get access to these, you'll have to remove the shutter crate from the outer shell. See the Zorki-4 CLA sticky.

 

[Peter_wrote:]

hi knipsomat, thanks for helping.

i already removed the front shell. the gears on the bottom of the big curtain drum look ok to me. they are also clean, no debris there or so.