hexar RF or bessa r2a?

morgan said:
...I'm also contemplating a new 35 (the cv ultron most likely, but maybe the nokton if I go with the bessa)
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Just to let you know I will have a used but in good condition 35/1.7 Ultron up on the RFF classifieds by next week at the latest. It is currently being professionally cleaned as I found a little spec of something on one of the inner elements, just as I was about to sell it to another RFF'r last week, most annoying. It is a beautiful lens; while the 1.2 would be nice for that extra stop, it is heavy and may impinge on the viewfinder, particularly with a hood. Anyway, I just thought I'd throw that in, food for thought. By the way, in the Hexar vs Bessa question, I haven't owned the Hexar RF but I did once have the fixed lens Hexar and it was terrifically well built, a solid performer which I will regret selling to my dying day....still looking for one to replace it online.
 
morgan said:
I've seen a few bodies only for around $700, and kits with 50/2 going for under 1k. I'm less familiar with the used prices on the Ikon, but they seem to be going for 1100-1200 used.
I haven't been checking prices for used Ikons, but you can get then for the $1200 range new form Tony Rose, one of our sponsor who includes free shipping for members (www.popflash.com), so I have to think that used ones would be selling for under $1000.

Reachable but it'd be a stretch if I also wanted a new 35. A Shutterbug review says that the Ikon shares the shutter and metering system with the R2A/R3A - is that true? The same review says it's got a nicer viewfinder than an M6. Maybe I should think about it some more...
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After the developemnt of the ZI, Cosina adapted its metering system to the R2A & R3A although the ZI meter is tille rated as slightly more sensitive (EV 0-19 vs EV 1-19 for the R2A). However, there are differences in the shutter. Although the parts are the same, the more sophisticated electronics of the ZI allow for "permanent" AE Lock (20 seconds) while the R2A requires that the AE Lock button remain manually depressed for it to function. The other major advantage of the ZI is that it offers 28 mm framelines while the widest on the R2A are 35 mm.

I know from personal correspondence with Carl Zeiss AG that Zeiss worked to obtain the same immediacy of response with the ZI shutter system as a Leica (13 milliseconds). Cosina has never commented on any improvements in this area when they switched to an electronic shutter, so I don't know how it responds although I suspect that they did not make the investment for this improvement - at least if I can judge from the fact that their lack of AE Lock shows that there are differences in the two systems. Their old mechanical shutter had a respone time of 100 ms when tested by Popular Photography. The Hexar RF was 120 ms.
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I think the sound of the bessa shutter is nice, it's the all time classic shutter sound to my ears. The feeling of the slight vibration that is felt in my hands when I trip the shutter on my Bessas gives me the impression that the shutter is 'eager', hanging there tightly-sprung ready to pounce. I think it's something to do with the double shutter thing.
 
Huck Finn said:
I haven't been checking prices for used Ikons, but you can get then for the $1200 range new form Tony Rose, one of our sponsor who includes free shipping for members (www.popflash.com), so I have to think that used ones would be selling for under $1000.
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Thanks for all the info Huck. Popflash has one for 1150, which is getting closer. The more I read about the Ikon, the more it's starting to go between that and the Hexar. I found a used Hexar for $600 body only that I might jump on and grab an Ultron to go with it.
 
morgan said:
I'm torn between the Hexar and the R2A. I'm worried about ongoing support for the hexar, but I like it's feature set, and it sounds like they're built like tanks.
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I'm happy for my colleagues here who have had good experiences with the Hexar or continue to have good experiences. MY Hexar was NOT built like a tank. For one thing it has more plastic parts than a Leica (though of course it costs less). I gave up on it after multiple trips to the Konica repair facilty for rangefinder alignment. They assured me it was fixed, but then it always arrived back to me the same or worse than when it left. Finally after being very persistent on the the phone, I got to talk to a Konica technician who admitted to me that the camera was known to slip out of alignment easily and there was not much they could do. So, Konica is gone and future repair status is iffy. To those who own them and love them: I'm glad you're happy. To prospective buyers: beware!
 
I've got a hexar RF in decent shape that I'd part with. I loved this camera - it was very good to me and rock-solid reliable but since getting the M8 I don't need all these 35mm bodies anymore.

wade (at) heninger (dot) org if you are interested.
 
Judging by the documented hits and misses with this camera, I guess that it comes down to sample variation, or perhaps Konica built better Hexar RFs as time went by. Some folks have gems, other got lemons.

You can always make lemonade:

If you have a Hexar RF with a crapped-out rangefinder, you can use it as the best Bessa L ever made, using the 28mm framelines, or the whole VF for a 25mm lens, or with external finders for 12mm-21mm lenses.
 
Any other ZI comments? Or ZI vs hexar? I've found a couple of hexars for $600 for body only. But the ZI is intriguing to me. It's tough for me shell out $600 on a body that could break and be unrepairable.
 
Morgan, a black Zeiss Ikon was just posted on the Classfieds section of this website this morning for $870. This includes a hand made Luigi's leather half case! The case alone is worth over $200!!

So, it would seem that your question about price has been answered. :) This is a great buy. :cool:
 
Huck Finn said:
Morgan, a black Zeiss Ikon was just posted on the Classfieds section of this website this morning for $870. This includes a hand made Luigi's leather half case! The case alone is worth over $200!!

So, it would seem that your question about price has been answered. :) This is a great buy. :cool:
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Yeah, I'm staring at it right now! It's a great deal. Ugh, I hate these decisions when there's no clear winner and everything seems like a trade off.

I just read this popphoto comparison of the R2A, ZI, and M7. http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/3600/speaking-frankly-rangefinder-revival.html

It seems like I couldn't make a bad choice really.
 
back alley said:
oops, case is NOT included huck.
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Thanks for the correction, Joe. I didn't read the fine print. :eek:

I still think that $870 is a great price for a camera that's in excellent condition. That's $400 off the grey market price, or about a 1/3 reduction. And shipping is included in the price. Nice job by Jeff. :)
 
Seems like there is a lot of support hereabouts for the Hexar.

I have three samples now and no problems with any of them -- all bought used from various people so their histories are all different.

They all sound the same (no screeches) and the RF's are all fine.

I really like the look and feel of the Bessa R3x camera but I did have some RF issues with it (and it kindred digital spirit, the R-D1) so I'm worried about that under heavy use.

My older Hexar has taken it's fair share of knocks without a hitch. The two newers ones are, well, too new (to me) to say anything meaningful about.
 
Coming a little late to this party but have seven years experience with the Hexar RF and not a single problem - not one. Must have got a good one. Picked up the full kit on eBay for $850.

More recently got a non-TTL M6 0.72. Yes the build is better than the Hexar. The pictures are not any better with the same lenses - in my cludgy hands anyway. And the extra modern features on the Hexar are easy to get used to.

I have also had a new ZI for exactly one roll of film, so far with no problems (knock wood). Bought mine from MATSUIYA store in Japan for under $1,200 with shipping. Based on others' experiences I may end up wishing I had popped for the extended warranty - nah. I have faith, and a goodly share of dumb luck. It really is easier to focus the 75mm 'lux on the ZI than on the Hexar or M6. And oh god - that viewfinder.

I have been kicking around the idea of a Bessa for a while, but think I have the M-mount bodies pretty well covered. The thought of a new R with the 35/2.5C for less smack than the last 10MP P&S I bought is appealing. Take it on the knockabouts with the kids, where I might jostle the delicate RF mechanisms of the Hexar, or M6, or ZI.

And so I end up where Morgan started. - John
 
I've got to echo the last two posters. I've got a Hexar RF that's seen heavy, heavy use, including a drop from my shoulder on concrete, and I'm 6'4". The camera is intact. It works like a charm. For me it is the best film M body ever made.
 
FWIW, i've been flying a pair of Hexars for over five years. One body had an (early) electronic glitch that was repaired in good time. No problems since, and both bodies have gotten fairly heavy mileage.

I can say I haven't heard of any camera model that didn't give somone fits (my horror story about a pair of early-production Pentax LX SLRs years ago is somewhhere on this site). You name the make and model, someone's going to tell you they got a dud. I think the Hexar RF became something of a philosophical lightning rod among several groups of people, wholly apart from any technical virtues, or perceived lack thereof (daring to step foot in Leica Valhalla for openers).

We all have our faves; this one's mine.


- Barrett
 
Another vote for the ZI.

I used to own a Hexar RF. It wass such a disappointment after the excellent AF; I found the motor noise far more instrusive than expected, my vertical alignment was out, horizontal went out, and it spent a year with Greg Weber waiting for parts. Finally he got a donor camera.

Zeiss concentrated on the most important aspect, the rangefinder, when desigining the ZI; that alone makes it worth opting for over the Hexar, let alone the question of finding parts.
 
Paul T. said:
Another vote for the ZI.

I used to own a Hexar RF. It wass such a disappointment after the excellent AF; I found the motor noise far more instrusive than expected, my vertical alignment was out, horizontal went out, and it spent a year with Greg Weber waiting for parts. Finally he got a donor camera.

Zeiss concentrated on the most important aspect, the rangefinder, when desigining the ZI; that alone makes it worth opting for over the Hexar, let alone the question of finding parts.
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Yeah, the VF on the ZI seems to be a big plus. I care less about focus with longer lenses, I rarely use any of my RF's for anything longer than 50. If I want to do portraits, I love the 85 1.8 and my 30D (don't go all joan of arc on me, I love film and rf's). It's really coming down to an issue of dollars. I'm in for a 35 1.7 ultron, so I have to decide if I can also afford the difference between a hexar and a ZI.

Foto_fool's comment above about taking a bessa so as not to damage an M6 or ZI scares me, because I don't baby my gear. I want a camera that's going to hold up being used and carried about (although not purposefully abused).

And don't mention the Hexar AF, that's on the list as well. :D It could make this whole thread moot. :)
 
if you only use one lens and it's a 35 then the hexar af is a great camera.
i bought one and used it for a short time and it's easy, comfortable and the lens is great.
but then i realized that i was using it as my point & shoot camera for 'lesser' things, like work related stuff, and thought that a digital was far better suited for my needs - where people want colour shots and want them quick.
 
back alley said:
if you only use one lens and it's a 35 then the hexar af is a great camera.
i bought one and used it for a short time and it's easy, comfortable and the lens is great.
but then i realized that i was using it as my point & shoot camera for 'lesser' things, like work related stuff, and thought that a digital was far better suited for my needs - where people want colour shots and want them quick.
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That's almost why I want one. The ultimate street shooter, but also for weddings where people want digital, but also some film. And it just seems pretty damn cool.

But it would be a complementary to whatever RF I end up with, since I like to use my cv15 and 50mm.
 
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