Highest resolution 50 & 100 iso BW film

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Does anyone know off the top of their head the highest resolution 50 and 100 iso black and white films available? IIRC Jan said Adox HR50 developed in HR was insanely high definition, but my memory might be wrong.

I want to do a little test to see what level of detail I can get using 35mm film. I normally use 400 iso film, but with long lenses I'll be using a tripod so film speed for static subjects is less of an issue.

Thanks!

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Charles,

There are, periodically, some tests that Erwin Puts does on film resolution with different developers, one of which is Adox HR 50, as well as CMS II and Ilford Delta 100 and some others going back in his monthly blog posts, here and there over the last few years.
You can start here and go back from there:
https://photo.imx.nl/blog/files/archive-march-2020.html
There are also some detailed, controlled, film vs. digital sensor resolution tests scattered here and there.
There are many other sources of info out there, I am sure, but his are more than just seat of the pants opinions, usually.

 

[retinax]

HR-50 (Aviphot 80) is insanely high resolution. I've used it to test some lenses. It is merciless. I don't recommend doing it. CMS 20 II has even higher resolution I think. Adox claim HR-50 reaches ISO 50 in HR; I used Xtol and it seemed to be a bit slower, but my process isn't accurate enough to be certain. ISO 100: TMX and Delta. Plenty for me for pictorial applications.

 

[Pál_K]

There are claims that ADOX CMS II (ISO 20), developed with Adotech II, provides the equivalent of 500 MP (I assume this is by counting line pairs and assuming the lens can resolve that).

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/60775-Adox-CMS-II-20-High-Resolution-Film-35mm-x-100-ft.

Back in the day, I used Kodak Technical Pan, developed in Technidol. This was using a Hasselblad. I have 16x20 prints that are astonishingly sharp - landscapes with structural details discernable at five miles away and no grain to be seen.

Anyway, although I'm no longer as sharpness obsessed as I used to be, I did discover that the tripod can be the weakest point, despite using mirror lockup, pre-releasing the rear baffles, etc.

For 35mm, the camera still shakes when the shutter is released, even with mirror lock up, if the long lens is on its own tripod. The steadiest platform I've found in that case is to ensure the camera is held down solidly as well.

 

[Bmoze]

I’ve experimented over the years with Tmax 100, Delta 100, and Acros 100, all in 120. I settled on Acros in Diafine (asa 200) or LC110 (asa 80). I’m now trying out the new Acros ii, in 35mm. So far, I don’t love it in LC110 (1:50), but haven’t used Diafine yet.

 

[Ronald M]

T Max is easily available. Delta 100 has more grain, more detail and makes a prettier image. Kodak has no grain in 16x20

I only use homemade D76 so I know it is fresh and consistent.
In sealed 4 oz bottles it is perfect for 6 months after which it slowly , very slowly, loses activity. 1;1; is my dilution.

Store-bought developer is of unknown age and results.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Fascinating, thank you!

I've been very impressed with Adox CHS100 ii which I use for pinhole photography, but for the time being I'll start with Ilford Delta 100 as easily available. Noted about camera shake and correct use of tripods!

I'm not obsessed with sharpness per se, but I want to do some experiments with the lenses I have to see what results I do get technically.

 

[telenous]

I've tried side-by-side (nothing scientific) Kodak TMax 100 and Ilford Delta 100 and, to my eye, Delta had a small edge. Rollei 80s is another option. It's virtually grainless and tremendously sharp although spectral sensitivity is somewhat skewed since it is a technical film (I believe it was manufactured for aerial applications.)

 

[HHPhoto]

Does anyone know off the top of their head the highest resolution 50 and 100 iso black and white films available? IIRC Jan said Adox HR50 developed in HR was insanely high definition, but my memory might be wrong.

Charles, your memory is right 🙂. Adox HR 50 developed in Adox HR-Dev or Adox FX-39 II - and Adox Scala 50 as the reversal version - has indeed very high resolution, excellent sharpness and extremely fine grain.
It is only surpassed - but really siginificantly surpassed - by Adox CMS 20II in Adotech IV, which is a league of its own with its microfilm DNA.

After HR 50 / Scala 50 (a bit behind) follow T-Max 100, Delta 100, Acros 100 II and PanF+ with their also excellent detail rendition.

That are the test results of several film photography experts. Published on photrio and a German film photography print magazine. I've got the same results in my tests, too. Friends of mine as well.

I've got the best characteristic curves / tonality with HR 50 at EI 32/16° and 40/17° with adopted developing times (I always use a densitometer to evaluate the optimal speed, developing times and agitation rhythms to get best tonality with a film-developer combination - it is by far the best method).

I want to do a little test to see what level of detail I can get using 35mm film. I normally use 400 iso film, but with long lenses I'll be using a tripod so film speed for static subjects is less of an issue.

Thanks!

For such tests you really need an excellent tripod keeping the camera vibration free. Vibrations and bad focussing are the main enemies of correct sharpness and resolution tests.
You further have to use mirror-lock-up and a cable release.
You should also do a kind of focus bracketing: Make a whole series of shots (best is to use a whole film for a certain film or lens test), and make for each single shot a new focussing! Then after developing evaluate each single shot with a (pocket) microscope at 40x or 100x enlargement and choose the shot(s) with the perfect, optimal focus.
And use the lens(es) at their optimal aperture (with most prime lenes it is f5,6, some modern 1.4 lenses have their sweet spot at f4).

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

Charles,

There are, periodically, some tests that Erwin Puts does on film resolution with different developers, one of which is Adox HR 50, as well as CMS II and Ilford Delta 100 and some others going back in his monthly blog posts, here and there over the last few years.

With all respect to Mr. Puts, but his film resolution tests are total crap. The values he has published are extremely low, much too low. He must have very bad testing techniques to get such extremely low values. For example for Delta 100 he had only 60-65 Lp/mm. But all well reputed film test experts got resolution values in the 100 - 130 Lp/mm range, dependent on the used lens, developer and test chart contrast.
My results with Delta 100 have been in the 110 - 130 Lp/mm range with different developers and lenses.

Cheers, Jan

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Thanks so much Jan! Fortunately I have a heavy tripod I use for my Linhof, and my Leica R8 has mirror lock up. I also have the FX39II too.

I suspect the principal failure possibility will be idiot user, ie me, but hopefully some results will be good enough for the task in hand!

Thanks again everyone, this forum is a minefield of information!

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Update, 10 lovely reels of HR50 and a 100ml bottle of HR developer arrived promptly from Fotoimpex (plus a few other bits and pieces - they are just that little bit cheaper than the UK and by the time shipping is spread over other things they are very competitive).

Now to wait for the arrival of distilled water (I'm in deep) to mix the developer, and select a sensible set of tests.

 

[retinax]

You're entering a world of pain. It will reveal any weakness of your lenses and technique. And even the tiniest dust does not disappear in grain...

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Excellent! I love a challenge!

 

[Freakscene]

You're entering a world of pain. It will reveal any weakness of your lenses and technique. And even the tiniest dust does not disappear in grain...

Not to mention that if your agitation does not provide sufficiently random movement of developer over the film your tones will be uneven. That stuff is brutal on all parts of the chain.

Marty

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Brilliant - a gesamtkunstwerk then!

I think my plan of shooting some ship photos might take a back seat as it sounds like I can't afford the risk of any movement at all.

 

[David Hughes]

Ship photos?

Oh dear. I hope you are not thinking of (say) HMS Belfast at each aperture from some office building nearby...

Regards, David

 

[ColSebastianMoran]

Question is what detail your whole system can realize on the film.

Recently, as an aid for camera scanning, my friend Valdimir in NYC has prepared a resolution test negative on Adox CMS II. Shooting a good 24" test pattern with a good lens onto the Adox film, he was able to realize about 80 lp/mm (as seen thru a microscope).

To read more about this, look at the Facebook group "Digitizing film with a digital camera."

 

[Beemermark]

Question is what detail your whole system can realize on the film.

Recently, as an aid for camera scanning, my friend Valdimir in NYC has prepared a resolution test negative on Adox CMS II. Shooting a good 24" test pattern with a good lens onto the Adox film, he was able to realize about 80 lp/mm (as seen thru a microscope).

To read more about this, look at the Facebook group "Digitizing film with a digital camera."

That is very good and no doubt in the center. Edwin Putts had a discussion on testing (Leica) lenses using slow film. Bottom line it is really a challenge to obtain the maximum resolution. And then resolution is not the end all. It's resolution and contrast. early Leica lenses (pre 1980 or so) tended to be high resolution and lower contrast. Japanese SLR lenses like Nikon were higher contrast and lower resolution. Usually the Nikon lens looked "sharper". Yin and Yang

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

I'm quite sure, apart from my idiocy and poor technique, the digital part will be the greatest limiting factor!