Joosep
Well-known
Is dilettante a better word ?
I like it...
I dont justify the prices. I dont think of the prices like that.
I think, gosh sure would be awesome to have that, check the price and start saving. May it take a month or two years, Ill just be patient.
I like it...
I dont justify the prices. I dont think of the prices like that.
I think, gosh sure would be awesome to have that, check the price and start saving. May it take a month or two years, Ill just be patient.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
How do you 'justify' anything?
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Addy101
Well-known
You're right.... Just don't get frustratedI agree, though I think nothing is wrong with lusting for something you can't have. Maybe there should always be one camera out of reach. What will you dream about if there isn't?
As long as you keep shooting, all is permitted!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Another vote for 'amateur' = someone who does it for love.
'Hobbyist' suggests to me that they've no better idea of how to waste their time.
Most such interpretations are based on when/where we first encountered the term, or on how it was explained to us, so they don't necessarily mean a whole helluva lot.
Cheers,
R.
'Hobbyist' suggests to me that they've no better idea of how to waste their time.
Most such interpretations are based on when/where we first encountered the term, or on how it was explained to us, so they don't necessarily mean a whole helluva lot.
Cheers,
R.
FrankS
Registered User
Agree. We all walk around interpreting others' expressed opinions using our own "personal dictionaries" with different nuanced meanings for common words, and this often leads to arguments on Internet forums.
For example, for me, hobbyist has no negative connotations, it is simply one who engages in a hobby.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Exactly. Which is why it's always worth trying to clarify such matters. But some people don't seem to be interested in clarification or (Heaven forfend!) in the very concept that there might be two legitimate views of the same subject.
Then, of course, there are differences between different brands of English. Fannies are a wonderful example.
Cheers,
R.
Addy101
Well-known
In the famous words of Churchill: Britain and America are "two nations divided by a common language", I assume the same goes for other English speakin territories.
To me Amateur seems to imply one isn't good enogh to be a professional, but that might be influenced by the Dutch use of the word amateur. According to one definition (thefreedictionary.com) a amateur engages in photography as a passtime. A hobbyist on the other hand pursues photography outside one's regular occupation and engages in it primarily for pleasure. But in the end, it all is semantics, lets go out and take some photographs
To me Amateur seems to imply one isn't good enogh to be a professional, but that might be influenced by the Dutch use of the word amateur. According to one definition (thefreedictionary.com) a amateur engages in photography as a passtime. A hobbyist on the other hand pursues photography outside one's regular occupation and engages in it primarily for pleasure. But in the end, it all is semantics, lets go out and take some photographs
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
I think what leads to arguments is people trying to put down others, in order to feed their egos. It's silly, really. In my book, everyone is equally clever and equally silly. It's called "being human".
My own dictionary of photography (after Ambrose Bierce) holds these definitions...
Amateur: someone who believes themselves (wrongly) to be inferior to those who call themselves "professional".
Hobbyist: someone who does something for the pleasure of it and probably doesn't give a damn what anyone says about them.
Professional: either (1) a solid craftsman who quietly does what he enjoys and is pleased that other people like his work enough to pay him; or (2) a vainglorious idiot who goes on internet forums and pontificates on the basis of the ten pictures he sold in the past year.
one90guy
Well-known
If I could afford it there are cameras I would love to own. But I love to use what I have, I guess I am a amateur/hobbyist. It did take me some time to figure out it was not the camera but my abilities that affected my pictures.
mfogiel
Veteran
Every now and then, I come across an example of GAS in some other field: guitars, saxophones, HIFI, motorcycles, old cars, watches, boats, etc... This is a quite diffuse human tendency, and photography addiction is no different.
When I was young, in the country where I lived, a serious professional camera cost between the equivalent of a small car up to a house - I remember a Linhof Master Technica outfit cost a fortune.
Today, many of these cameras are being sold for what an average Joe makes in a week. You can get a fantastic Rolleiflex for 1000 USD, a Leica M3+DR Summicron for 1500 USD or maybe less, a Hasselblad 500 C/M with a lens for 700 or 800 USD, a Nikon f3 with the 105/2.5 for 500 USD, a Leicaflex SL2 with the Summicron 90/2 for about a 1000 USD too. These are cameras that will perform for many decades to come if properly cared for, and will be able to deliver incredible quality, particularly in B&W, where the competition from digital is minimal. Just have fun.
When I was young, in the country where I lived, a serious professional camera cost between the equivalent of a small car up to a house - I remember a Linhof Master Technica outfit cost a fortune.
Today, many of these cameras are being sold for what an average Joe makes in a week. You can get a fantastic Rolleiflex for 1000 USD, a Leica M3+DR Summicron for 1500 USD or maybe less, a Hasselblad 500 C/M with a lens for 700 or 800 USD, a Nikon f3 with the 105/2.5 for 500 USD, a Leicaflex SL2 with the Summicron 90/2 for about a 1000 USD too. These are cameras that will perform for many decades to come if properly cared for, and will be able to deliver incredible quality, particularly in B&W, where the competition from digital is minimal. Just have fun.
zuiko85
Veteran
Mechanical Metal Manual cameras are shiny pretty toys and I can't resist them.
That's all I have to say about that.
That's all I have to say about that.
MarylandBill
Established
Well, just a thought regarding the hobbyist/amateur divide. If asked what separates the two, I think I would say it was the nature of the activity. If one could reasonably do an activity as a career but didn't, they are an amateur. If it was an activity that could not be reasonably turned into a career (like say model railroading), then they are hobbyist... but in either case there is no negative cast to either. Indeed, in some of my other hobbies (music and astronomy), amateurs can often be very well regarded by professionals in the field (and in music, the line between gifted amateur and professional is often blurry since the amateurs might get recruited for paying gigs).
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Bill
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Bill
Spanik
Well-known
If it is a hobby you always need to "justify" these things. On the other hand I feel that most hobby photographers buy gear because they want a brand/model/type while more professional ones buy gear because it let them do something.
daveleo
what?
. . . . .
Amateur: someone who believes themselves (wrongly) to be inferior to those who call themselves "professional".
Hobbyist: someone who does something for the pleasure of it and probably doesn't give a damn what anyone says about them.
Professional: either (1) a solid craftsman who quietly does what he enjoys and is pleased that other people like his work enough to pay him; or (2) a vainglorious idiot who goes on internet forums and pontificates on the basis of the ten pictures he sold in the past year.
Okay, that nails me down.
I'm a hobbyist with professional category (2) tendencies
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bill,
Mmmmm.... nice distinction. Not sure it's right, but it's VERY nice. In both senses of 'nice'. Thanks.
Cheers,
R.
MarylandBill
Established
Well I did say that is how I would draw the line... or perhaps it would be that I would use amateur as a special case of hobbyist.
At least in common usage, I don't know anyone who would use the term amateur for any activity that can't generally be done professionally (even if professional might perform the activity very differently). For this discussion, being professional would have to be the activity itself, not a closely related activity. For example, being a model railroader is a hobby... you might run a store catering to model railroaders, but that does not make you a professional model railroader.
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Bill
jwc57
Well-known
Bill...I assume you mean the activity of model railroading, as in running the "railroad".
There are professional model railroad builders.
There are professional model railroad builders.
Gumby
Veteran
Hobbiest, amateur, or pro -- doens't really matter - should buy the best gear they can afford that will do the work they want to accompliosh. That should be sufficient justification.
batey_1020
Well-known
I actually happen to have a few close friends who are professional model builders.
Im often told that some of my work is as good as if not better but i have no desire to turn something i enjoy into a job.
I think when a hobby becomes a job you need to look for another hobby
Finding this topic very interesting anyway.
Something about the justification part of spending. A friend i often shoot with just spent close to $8000 on gear upgrading what he already had. He has more gear then i could ever think of.
I asked him why he needed it and his respose was "work". I then proceeded to ask how much do you make off your photography (knowing he shoots the odd wedding, music gig and product photgraphy now and then). The response was "not a lot". He didnt seem to understand the point that he is now $8000 behind for this year.
I could never use "work" to justify buying gear unless i was in a stiuation where i was making a decent profit.
Good thing is i always have someone to borrow gear off
MarylandBill
Established
Well I will be.. mmm.. Ok, I will have to think of a better example
. But sure, the activity of model railroading. How about stamp collecting?... Well, I suppose being a dealer would make you a professional... mmmm
Well, lets just say that some activities are generally recognized as being professional and others are not... yeah that is it...
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Bill