horsemilk
Member
Hi there, I've just used this Rollei Digibase kit for the first time and I'm wondering if anyone can tell me why my negatives have turned out with this magenta/purple tone.
Here is an example:
This is not a scanning problem, as the lab negatives I've scanned don't have this issue.
I loaded 5 rolls into a steel tank and developed at 37C. I will try to offer a few things I might have done wrong, and maybe someone can tell me what could have caused this.
1. I actually spooled and loaded the rolls into the tank and they sat there for a month before I got around to developing them.
2. I initially rinsed the film twice in warm water, the water came off slightly green. I then pre-soaked the film for about 30 minutes, this wasn't my intention but I left it pre-soaking while I got my chemicals up to temperature, which took longer than I expected. When I emptied the tank from this pre-soak the water came of quite dark, like a purple-black I think.
3. I didn't rinse between steps, the instructions didn't mention this so I wasn't sure if one is supposed to.
4. Because the tank I used is quite big it takes a while to fill, probably 45 seconds or so to pour in each chemical. I started the timer when the tank was full, not when I started pouring, so each step was slightly lengthened.
Can anyone tell me what would have caused this? I have more film that I am eager to develop but I don't want to ruin the rolls if this happens again.
Here is an example:
This is not a scanning problem, as the lab negatives I've scanned don't have this issue.
I loaded 5 rolls into a steel tank and developed at 37C. I will try to offer a few things I might have done wrong, and maybe someone can tell me what could have caused this.
1. I actually spooled and loaded the rolls into the tank and they sat there for a month before I got around to developing them.
2. I initially rinsed the film twice in warm water, the water came off slightly green. I then pre-soaked the film for about 30 minutes, this wasn't my intention but I left it pre-soaking while I got my chemicals up to temperature, which took longer than I expected. When I emptied the tank from this pre-soak the water came of quite dark, like a purple-black I think.
3. I didn't rinse between steps, the instructions didn't mention this so I wasn't sure if one is supposed to.
4. Because the tank I used is quite big it takes a while to fill, probably 45 seconds or so to pour in each chemical. I started the timer when the tank was full, not when I started pouring, so each step was slightly lengthened.
Can anyone tell me what would have caused this? I have more film that I am eager to develop but I don't want to ruin the rolls if this happens again.
Lawrence Sheperd
Well-known
Welcome to the RFF, horsemilk! Someone with much more experience than I in developing C-41 at home should be along soon to chime in.
You didn't mention the type of film you developed, but the magenta tinge could be indicative of expired film or film kept in a very hot location. I bought 4 bricks of expired Fuji X-tra 400 for $2.00 and even with excellent processing the film came out with that magenta tinge.
You didn't mention the type of film you developed, but the magenta tinge could be indicative of expired film or film kept in a very hot location. I bought 4 bricks of expired Fuji X-tra 400 for $2.00 and even with excellent processing the film came out with that magenta tinge.
Sparrow
Veteran
... it could just be colour balance, one click on Auto-Colour in Photoshop and you get this
horsemilk
Member
Thanks for the quick replies and the welcome everyone! The film was not expired, it's all Portra 400 and 160. As mentioned it was 5 rolls, one was 35mm and the other four were 120. Different batches of film from different boxes, so I would safely rule out the film itself.
As mentioned, when I use the exact same scanning process with lab processed film this issue doesn't occur.
Hey Sparrow, thanks for this suggestion. I am aware this can be somewhat corrected in PS. Rather than use auto-color, to do it correctly I've had to raise the greens and drop the reds and blues somewhat. It's tedious to go through every scanned frame and do this, and while it gives a workable image, the reds in the final image feel incorrect.
Rather than go on processing my film with this problem and correcting it in post I would like to find the problem in my processing. Or else I would have to go back to lab processing, which would be disappointing (and expensive).
As mentioned, when I use the exact same scanning process with lab processed film this issue doesn't occur.
Hey Sparrow, thanks for this suggestion. I am aware this can be somewhat corrected in PS. Rather than use auto-color, to do it correctly I've had to raise the greens and drop the reds and blues somewhat. It's tedious to go through every scanned frame and do this, and while it gives a workable image, the reds in the final image feel incorrect.
Rather than go on processing my film with this problem and correcting it in post I would like to find the problem in my processing. Or else I would have to go back to lab processing, which would be disappointing (and expensive).
zauhar
Veteran
Horesmilk, I once accidentally swapped the blix and developer (i.e. processed with blix first), and believe it or not I actually got usable images - but they had a color cast like yours. Any chance that could have happened? (Or, less dramatically, did some blix get in the developer?)
Randy
Randy
Lawrence Sheperd
Well-known
Would having the exposed film sit in the developing tank for 3 months cause any problems with color shift? An oxidation issue of some sort?
Sparrow
Veteran
It's a lot slower that way though, if you correct one neg using Curves you can save the settings as a preset and automate it.
I scan as .tiff files anyway if I'm intending printing, and they look a dog Raw out of the scanner ... so I have a pre-set for each film I use, not perfect but it takes a lot of the work out of the job
edge100
Well-known
... it could just be colour balance, one click on Auto-Colour in Photoshop and you get this
This.
Remember, with colour negative, the inversion and colour balancing steps are integral parts of the work flow. Virtually no scanning program gets this right, and it's largely a manual process, even when using better workflows.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
First of all I don't think letting it sit in the tank will have made much difference. The green dye is the anti-halation backing, which comes off in the pre-rinse.
There can be a number of reasons for the cast. Typically underexposure or underdevelopment shifts the color towards purple. Perhaps a combination of low temperature and insufficient agitation could cause this. It is harder to maintain the temperature in a steel tank. I use a Jobo tank with continuous agitation. When I get a purple cast it usually indicates underexposure and/or exhausted chemicals. Kodak Ektar also tends to come out more on the purple side than other films in my experience.
There can be a number of reasons for the cast. Typically underexposure or underdevelopment shifts the color towards purple. Perhaps a combination of low temperature and insufficient agitation could cause this. It is harder to maintain the temperature in a steel tank. I use a Jobo tank with continuous agitation. When I get a purple cast it usually indicates underexposure and/or exhausted chemicals. Kodak Ektar also tends to come out more on the purple side than other films in my experience.
horsemilk
Member
Thanks for your suggestions guys, but my day job is as a retoucher, I've worked on large archival projects scanning and correcting thousands of negs and slides older than I am. I am not trying to brag but I have scanning itself down to a fine art, and I can safely eliminate that as the problem. As I've said a few times, this is not a scanning issue, and I am not looking for help correcting it in post.
This is a developing issue, and I'm hoping some of the very knowledgeable members here who are familiar with this black art might have encountered the issue before.
Hmm, but as I said the first couple of washes came off green, while the one that soaked for 30 minutes came off very dark purple. Is it possible to pre-wash too much?
The chemicals are freshly mixed, so can't be exhausted. I had them all in a bath at 37C, it's possible that the bath dropped a degree or two as I progressed through the steps. Perhaps next time I can develop at a lower temp for a more extended time to reduce the effect of any error.
However, the negs themselves look properly exposed and developed to the eye. Usually one can see if a negative is under or over exposed badly to the bare eye, but these all looked spot on when I pulled them out of the tank and dried them.
edge100
Well-known
No idea, then. I've developed hundreds of C41 rolls at home, and never seen anything like this.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
The green is normal, the purple is not. It may be that some of an image dye washed off. I've never experienced this though.
Corran
Well-known
FWIW, I stopped pre-soaking my C-41 negatives except for about 30 seconds, mostly to warm up the (metal) reel in tempered water (otherwise the temperature of the chemicals would drop when I dunked a metal reel that was 60 degrees F into the tank). I seem to get more consistent results than before when I presoaked for 1-2 minutes.
The above statement may be true. I imagine a 30-minute pre-soak is not good for this process.
The above statement may be true. I imagine a 30-minute pre-soak is not good for this process.
horsemilk
Member
What kind of kit do you use and at what temperature?
Holding these home developed negatives against the light and comparing to lab-developed sheets of the same stock, the orange base of my home stuff seems to be a little paler, a fraction yellower. Is indicative of over/under development, or is the answer more likely that I washed off some of image dye with the extended pre-soak?
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
I don't know the answer to this. I have washed/soaked some films for extended periods of time at the end, usually while I develop another batch. I am always amazed at how much orange dye continues to come off. I have not noticed any affects of this, negative or otherwise. My assumption is that thinning the base does not affect the image dyes. Long soaking before the image is fixed may be an entirely different thing though.
wblynch
Well-known
My guess is the extended soak time swelled the emulsion and prevented the color developer from getting in there and doing its work.
It just looks way underdeveloped and I think that is why.
You could have easily added a minute to the development.
Also a longer time in the blix might have helped as well. It has that bleach-bypass look.
You can always re-blix. and see if that helps.
It just looks way underdeveloped and I think that is why.
You could have easily added a minute to the development.
Also a longer time in the blix might have helped as well. It has that bleach-bypass look.
You can always re-blix. and see if that helps.
newfilm
Well-known
Could it be the chemical temperature is not right? I've read the manual it says the temperature has to be within 0.25 celsius of the specified temperature. So getting it off even 1 degree might even contribute to the colour shift.
mwoenv
Well-known
Digibase kits had a problem with Part C developer concentrate being bad, due to oxidation and indicated by a purple color, so check that. I had to have Freestyle send me a new Part C once. If that is not the problem, see the Troubleshooting section of the instructions. For example, negatives appearing more magenta than normal can be caused by developer being too warm and overly vigorous agitation.
As you probably know, accurate temperature and control during the developer step is very important - is your developer step temperature based on a color thermometer (or another thermometer calibrated to a color thermometer)? And are you maintaining the temperature for the 3.25 minutes of the developer step (e.g., with a water bath)? Pre-warming the empty tank/reels/film to the pre-soaking and developing temperature (e.g., with a water bath), in addition to the 2-3 minute pre-soaking (per the instructions) helps in developing at the proper temperature.
As you probably know, accurate temperature and control during the developer step is very important - is your developer step temperature based on a color thermometer (or another thermometer calibrated to a color thermometer)? And are you maintaining the temperature for the 3.25 minutes of the developer step (e.g., with a water bath)? Pre-warming the empty tank/reels/film to the pre-soaking and developing temperature (e.g., with a water bath), in addition to the 2-3 minute pre-soaking (per the instructions) helps in developing at the proper temperature.
horsemilk
Member
Hmm, how would I know if this is the issue?
The developer was the correct temp, but as I said the tank took almost a minute to fill, so it's possible this added to the development time and could have caused this?
No, I used a regular digital thermometer and once the tank was filled I kept it out of the bath, so it's feasible it dropped a degree or so... I guess I will try this again but use the 25C development. Hopefully that is more forgiving...
Fotohuis
Well-known
Your problem in the Purple cast is the much too long pre-soak. The color couplers are affected hence this result. I am using Rollei Digibase C-41 kits since 2009. It is coming from Fuji Hunt in Belgium and the Starter is a chemical rippening of the C-41 developer normally used in re-generation in a mini-lab.
The right and regular use of the kit:
2 minutes pre-soak destilled water
3:15 minutes C-41 developer 100F/37,8C +/- 0,5C (critical in temperature)
30S Stop 2-3% Acetic Acid or a water rinse
4:20 minutes Bleach
Water rinse
6:30 minutes Fixer
3x water rinses 1-2-4 minutes is perfect.
1:00 minute Stabilizer
Drying of the film approx. 2 -3 hours on room temperature
The extra rinses between the steps is important when you are re-using the chemicals.
When the chemicals are old you can re-generate with partial new chemicals and spark with Nitrogen. (Pond pump accesoires).
The best results you will get in a Jobo rotary processor CPA-2/CPP-2/-3 or ATL machine.
The weak point on a Jobo CPE+ is no recycling water hence the spec of 100F/37,8C +/- 0,5C is just made.
Always measure the temperature in a Jobo CPA-2/CPP-2 near the first bottle: 38,5C is correct in setting. The best is a Jobo 2523 drum 2x 135-36 or 2x 120 roll films. With the elevator you can process on the second precisly. You can use 270ml-300ml content in chemicals. easy going in, easy going out.
The most sensible part in the C-41 developer is the para- Phenylene Diamine, containing in part C. After approx. 10 months this part is colorizing to Purple. Then you can not use it anymore. You can use Tetenal Protectan spray in this part C to prolong it to 10-12 months.
When you are using my instructions you will have perfect C-41 negatives on all C-41 regular films.
Just to show you a non corrected example on roll film:
Good luck with your next C-41 development.
The right and regular use of the kit:
2 minutes pre-soak destilled water
3:15 minutes C-41 developer 100F/37,8C +/- 0,5C (critical in temperature)
30S Stop 2-3% Acetic Acid or a water rinse
4:20 minutes Bleach
Water rinse
6:30 minutes Fixer
3x water rinses 1-2-4 minutes is perfect.
1:00 minute Stabilizer
Drying of the film approx. 2 -3 hours on room temperature
The extra rinses between the steps is important when you are re-using the chemicals.
When the chemicals are old you can re-generate with partial new chemicals and spark with Nitrogen. (Pond pump accesoires).
The best results you will get in a Jobo rotary processor CPA-2/CPP-2/-3 or ATL machine.
The weak point on a Jobo CPE+ is no recycling water hence the spec of 100F/37,8C +/- 0,5C is just made.
Always measure the temperature in a Jobo CPA-2/CPP-2 near the first bottle: 38,5C is correct in setting. The best is a Jobo 2523 drum 2x 135-36 or 2x 120 roll films. With the elevator you can process on the second precisly. You can use 270ml-300ml content in chemicals. easy going in, easy going out.
The most sensible part in the C-41 developer is the para- Phenylene Diamine, containing in part C. After approx. 10 months this part is colorizing to Purple. Then you can not use it anymore. You can use Tetenal Protectan spray in this part C to prolong it to 10-12 months.
When you are using my instructions you will have perfect C-41 negatives on all C-41 regular films.
Just to show you a non corrected example on roll film:
Good luck with your next C-41 development.