Home development of 4x5 / 8x10

mgilbuena

mgilbuena

San Francisco Bay Area
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I have the itch to graduate from medium format to large format. There's great information out there -- but a critical component of information missing for me, a large format newbie. If this has all been covered already in RFF, my apologies.. simply link me to that thread I haven't found.

1> When 4x5 or 8x10 film is purchased, what do you get? An envelope of film?
2> From my understanding, you must load this film via a changing bag into film holders specific to the camera. There's two films per holder, correct?
3> How does one ship the film off for development from a lab? With the film holder and dark slide attached? Some other way?
4> How can one develop, from home, 4x5 or 8x10 film with maximum efficiency in respects to the amount of chemicals used? Is there an equivalent of the metal canisters I presently use for medium format?

Thanks again. I've searched the internet and youtube, but information seems to be sparse on the actual film mechanics on using these cameras.

Thanks!
 
1: you get a box. inside the box is another box, and inside that, depending on what kind of film you're buying, is an envelope of film. Sometimes there's a piece of cardboard in there too.
2: yes, you'll need to load it into a double darkslide. some people use grafmatics, which are a bit more complicated but hold more film. the standard holders are universal and will fit in any modern (graflok back, circa probably the 40's or 50's) camera. they'll fit into older cameras too, but there isn't always a guarantee.
3: I've never sent my film off to a lab, but I would assume you load it into a box just like it came. I keep a sticky note on all of my boxes and write down what's currently in it, I've found that's the best way and I never have to open it in the darkroom to find out how much is in there.
4: I'm not entirely sure what your question is...are you looking for a tank? the jobo 3010 holds 10 sheets of 4x5 at a time but is pretty pricey.

large format photography forum is a great resource for such things, I agree.
 
1-3 are sort of answered (though you won't find a grafmatic for 8x10 - they were designed for use with press cameras for quick shots of crime scenes and such; you'll use standard holders with one sheet on each side)

4 - probably the easiest thing is to develop the sheets in open trays - especially with 8x10.
 
4 - Simma Roller motor base and a drum. Super efficient and stupid easy. Will do 4 sheets of 4x5 or 2 sheets 8x10, depending on the size of the drum.
 
Unless you plan to make contact prints, 8x10 is not going to give you much better results than 4x5, while costing far more in terms of gear, film, and processing.

I shoot 4x5, and develop myself using a Jobo 2500 tank and 4x5 film reel. I can develop 6 sheets of film at one time in this tank. I got the tank and reel off eBay for $70 or so. Getting film processed at a lab is not the so economical, my local lab charges about $45 for 20 sheets, doing it myself costs only a few dollars. Of course I am taking B&W here, color is not so easy to do at home.

The good thing about large format is that you can get very good results with a decent flatbed scanner, and you can get the files digitally printed at pretty much any lab.

Have fun!
 
U can develop 4x5 at home using your 4 banger tank for 35mm, by using taco style. Basically same as if u were doing 35 or mf. Taco style uses an approach that sort of folds the negative into a taco shape. I use a modified taco style, that makes use of a PVC pipe cut in a small band to hold the negative. In a normal stainless steel 4 banger I can hold three negatives. In a bigger tank such as the one used for plastic reels, it can do 4 at a time. There are dedicated daylight tanks deigned for 4x5. Otherwise tray approach will work but u need almost perfect darkness until I think a minute nto fixing process.

http://www.google.com/search?q=large+format+developing+taco+method&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en

Gary
 
I have one of those MOD 54's from almost two years ago when the guy was selling them on Ebay. It works great and I highly recommend it.
 
mgilbuena said:
...
3> How does one ship the film off for development from a lab? With the film holder and dark slide attached? Some other way?
Click to expand...

I would NEVER sent the film holders. If it is a walk-in lab that is used to handling sheet film in-house they'll likely have loaner boxes. You can take the film holders in and transfer the film to their loaner boxes at the lab. If you are mailing film, you will need to transfer the film to the original double box to send it. Expect to loose the box in the process.

4> How can one develop, from home, 4x5 or 8x10 film with maximum efficiency in respects to the amount of chemicals used? Is there an equivalent of the metal canisters I presently use for medium format? ...
Click to expand...

I'm assuming B&W here: There are tanks, as others have noted. With the exception of some of the expensive motorized drum systems, the most chemical efficient and least expensive method is to use trays. Unless you shoot rather large quantities of film, something few LF shooters do except on extended shooting trips, you'll find trays work very well. I used only trays for quite a number of years.
 
Paterson Orbital processors originally designed for daylight processing of colour 8X10 paper can be slightly modified to great effect for deving sheet film. you can do upto 4x 4x5 sheets at once but I usually do singles which it does a sterling job of especially with the motorised wibbly wobbly base.
 
To reduce the risk of scratching the film while tray-developing make yourself a slosher. Just a framework of sheet perspex with a few stainless bolts to hold the sheet(s) still. It makes the agitation much more controlled too and eliminates 'hot', or over developed, edges on the sheet(s).

If sending the film away to a lab, do use the nested boxes - but these can not be guaranteed 100% lightproof on their own. I worked in a lab doing B+W, C41 and E6 sheet film long ago and very occasionally we would see light strike. Apparently, given some sunlight and the right (wrong) sort of rattling about, all the sheets in a box could be affected on one place, usually a side. Just put the sheets in one of the film bags that they came in, then place that inside the double boxes.

I have some Foma sheets here that even have a normal two-part box and a black bag, the same as one would expect for paper, rather than the double box I have seen before with Kodak. This still seems lightight though, so no need for worry.
 
If you're happy to use the same developing conditions for up to six sheets at a time then you should investigate the MOD54 insert for Paterson 3-reel tanks. It takes a little practice to load without scratching the film, but once loaded it allows you to work as with 5x4 film just as you would with the smaller formats to which you're already accustomed.
 
I used to develop 6 sheets at same time in open tray (you must be in a dark room, of course) with a metronome set up to 1 bit per second swapping the bottom frame to the top every 30 seconds with my fingers (it does not harm me but you may affect you - not spected but may be) with care (never got too much scratches) - the other chemicals, the same way. For better explanation (very very better indeed) you might see The Negative by AA.
 
I found MF much easier than expected, following my purchase of the Harman Titan 5x4 pinhole camera.

The film is actually on quite a thick base so the sheets themselves are easy to handle into and out of the dark slides, once you've had a little practice. I do mine in a changing bag easily enough.

I've used both monochrome and colour film which I develop at home in a Paterson 3-reel tank and using the Mod54 holder. (C-41 is just as easy at home as black and white development).

I get great scans from my Epson v700.
 
Film holders are really specific to the *format*. They're pretty generic with respect to *camera* type. With a couple of exceptions.

Some labs will accept film holders (US term, known as darkslides in the UK), others will expect sheet film in some other container, usually a film box. If it's a walk in place and regularly do LF, they may have a space where you can do the transfer and they can usually supply a box. I have done it both ways. It's always been walk in places that have taken holders. It's been a long time since I've had a lab process sheet film for me.

A totally dark *room* is usually easier than a film changing *bag* or *tent* for loading holders. Most homes have a windowless room somewhere that would work at night if nothing else. Don't use a laundry room if you can help it. Dust is a problem in such places.

There are lots of different ways that people process large format films at home. Go to the LF forum (largeformatphotography.info/forum) and search around, you'll find several descriptions. I use open ended tubes in trays of chemical in total darkness. I dilute HC-110 1:50 and can do 5 4x5 sheets or 2 8x10 sheets at a time.

There are a couple of standard references about view camera use. Steve Simmons (of view camera magazine) has a book. Ansel Adams "the Camera" and "The Negative" are in many public libraries and bookstores. There are others.
 
Everyone -- thank you SO much for the wealth of information and replies. The Mod54 looks amazing! It's exactly what I was hoping would exist. As for the tray method, I don't think I can fumble around without a safelight in my tight bathroom quarters. Practice, perhaps?

As for sending film off to a lab, that makes more sense. I was not aware of the box within a box. I will infrequently use a lab for color work, as I believe the sheer size of the negatives will provide excellent scans from my V500 for B&W and home color development.

Thanks again. I'll be checking out the other forum as well.
 
Sending exposed film in holders is fine and is a common practice from what I've seen at labs such as Toronto Image Works (Ed Burtynsky's lab). Make sure your deets are on the holder so there's no mix up. I've dropped off stacks of exposed holders before and for some photographers, it offers peace of mind as well as convenience. Sending in all your sheets in a triple box is fine if everything will be processed exactly the same.

You can also attach specific processing information if you need for each side of the holder (N +1 or N -1 for example). A good professional lab will not blink at this.
 
Developing sheet film in trays is simple. I run 4x5, 810 and 11x14 with no fuss. Start with four sheets, and soon you'll be running six or eight or twelve without much trouble. I've not ever wished for the tank development stuff. There is a Yankee tank for 4x5 which does 8 or 12 sheets (not sure), and one can use film hangers in deep tanks, but trays are easier and more cost effective. Keeping track of the number of sheets per ounce of developer stock solution is easy enough.

Mail films to a lab in a black bag in a box, as it is delivered from the manufacturer. Ask the lab to return your box with the processed films. You'll need a separate box for each kind of film and/or development need (+1, -1 etc.). You'll be able to get extra boxes if needed from someone on LFF.

There is a noticeable difference between 4x5 and 8x10, even if printing at 16x20, if you want to go with an 8x10 just do it. I shot nothing but 8x10 for about five years, the experience is something you'll bring to every exposure you make forever. 810 contact prints are to die for, and an enlargement is stunning. The difference in price is equally stunning, but nothing beats an 810 neg, except a bigger one. 810 enlargers are not easy to come by nor easy to use/maintain, but nothing looks like a print from an 810 neg, except a print from a bigger one, and that's not easy these days.
 
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