Horrifying prospect for any digital M8 8.2 owner!!!

IEDEI said:
so that's why you stalk the digital M forums? to remind everyone who has one that they are "overpriced show ponys"? rrrright. seems more like trolling the way i see it, sir.
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I was a relatively early adopter of the M8 and actually liked the camera despite it's shortcomings. After three years I'd had enough and moved on to something that did the job I wanted.

I'm not attacking any individuals here I'm attacking a product and its manufacturer ... if you choose to take it personally that's your problem!
 
IEDEI said:
so that's why you stalk the digital M forums? to remind everyone who has one that they are "overpriced show ponys"? rrrright. seems more like trolling the way i see it, sir.
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It seems to me to be an increasing occurrence within the hallowed halls of the internet, that people expressing a viewpoint with which one does not agree are dismissed as being "trolls"; thereby suggesting that their words have no relevance and that their motives be ... impure - an attribution which is difficult to accurately judge based upon one or two posts in isolation.

Let me suggest that Keith frequents and posts in all the myriad "subgroups" of this forum, which, as a member of the general RFF community, I believe to be his right. The "digital M" forum, as with any forum contained under the RFF umbrella, is not exclusively designed for, or frequented by, owners of a digital M. What a poor "forum" it would be otherwise (though you may disagree at this point) ! There are reasons for this (in the USA it would probably come under the banner of "Free Speech" in other countries it may be expressed under Evelyn Hall's phrase in her biography on Voltaire: ""I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"). I like to think of it as "spice" and variety - it's what keeps the discussions interesting. Everybody here has equal voice - including you. You are not a "shill" for Leica, just as Keith is not "trolling" digital M forums with incessant negativity and an "axe to grind".

If anybody here says anything with which you disagree (as often happens with me and with other member towards me), please express why this is the case - the more logic you use, the more evidence you use in support of that logic and the less "ad hominen" statements are made, the stronger your point will sound and the more support you will garner.

It just does not behove any "forum" (place to express ideas and opinions and to listen to said ideas and opinions - even through the dissension and conflict this often engenders) to be entirely dismissive of alternate viewpoints (as evidenced by calling someone a "troll") without at least providing some equal and opposite argument. Think of you disagreeing with Keith as being an opportunity to politely ellucidate upon why his statements are wrong in your view which will, in turn, edify the rest of the community.
 
Keith said:
I was a relatively early adopter of the M8 and actually liked the camera despite it's shortcomings. After three years I'd had enough and moved on to something that did the job I wanted.

I'm not attacking any individuals here I'm attacking a product and its manufacturer ... if you choose to take it personally that's your problem!
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What sense attacking at all, who or whatever it is? If another product suits you better why should I attack you or your Nikon or whatever?:confused:

It appears to me that you are opposed to diversity.
 
IEDEI said:
what does that have to do with anything? its about being respectful.
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So you called Keith a Troll in a respectful way. Cool.

I truly wish you good luck and fun with your M8; others might have strong feelings about Leica and it's politics and it is their good right to express them.

IMO it is a bit silly to buy yourself a high maintenance beauty and expect her to be forever faithful.

X,

Wim
 
"Horrifying" is a little more emotive a word than I would have chosen, but whether fan-boy or troll it seems a legitimate area for discussion rather than something to squabble about.

It clearly a reputation for longevity has been used by the modern company's marketing dept based on the company's historic ethos, and this action calls that ethos into question
 
jaapv said:
What sense attacking at all, who or whatever it is? If another product suits you better why should I attack you or your Nikon or whatever?:confused:

It appears to me that you are opposed to diversity.
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You can say what you want about my Nikon or Nikon in general jaapv and it won't bother me. I think you take the word attack a little too literally.

As for diversity I look for it in my photographs... not my cameras, I just want them to work the way I expect!
 
skibeerr said:
I truly wish you good luck and fun with your M8; others might have strong feelings about Leica and it's politics and it is their good right to express them.
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Sure...but this is the M digital forum. The people posting here are M digital owners. Posting an opinion is fine.....but this is not entitled "i do not own a digital M but would like to feel important here so i will post my inflammatory comments so my film-loving self feels better about everything".

Surely there must be a different forum available for this type of malignant discourse.
 
IEDEI said:
Sure...but this is the M digital forum. The people posting here are M digital owners. Posting an opinion is fine.....but this is not entitled "i do not own a digital M but would like to feel important here so i will post my inflammatory comments so my film-loving self feels better about everything".

Surely there must be a different forum available for this type of malignant discourse.
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You are new here and Keith is not. We understand Keith and his style. You are taking this stuff too serious.
 
Keith said:
You can say what you want about my Nikon or Nikon in general jaapv and it won't bother me. I think you take the word attack a little too literally.

As for diversity I look for it in my photographs... not my cameras, I just want them to work the way I expect!
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Hmmm...
at·tack   /əˈtæk/[uh-tak]
verb (used with object)
1. to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon; begin fighting with: He attacked him with his bare hands.
2. to begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy.
3. to blame or abuse violently or bitterly.
4. to direct unfavorable criticism against; criticize severely; argue with strongly: He attacked his opponent's statement.
5. to try to destroy, especially with verbal abuse: to attack the mayor's reputation.
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But I think you meant to express an opinion ;)
 
IEDEI said:
possible. i think i'm overexcited about my newly acquired digital M.

time to step away from the forum! :D
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No need to step away from the forum entirely, and I'm sure everyone here would understand excitement at your new toy and a desire to proselytise, but this particular thread (discussing problems with a certain Leica camera) is just guaranteed to give you grief and get you upset (especially if you just bought a Leica M8 and therefore have an emotional investment) - and to what aim ? There will be other threads with which you are delighted (and which are more in accord with your current beliefs and feelings).
 
Stephen-Colbert-Popcorn.gif


Cheers,
Dave
 
IEDEI said:
possible. i think i'm overexcited about my newly acquired digital M.

time to step away from the forum! :D
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I may mention IEDEI ... I wasn't offended by your post.

It's just the internet for gawd's sake! :D
 
i think it would do us all well if the rhetoric was taken down a notch and folks just cool off a bit.
no need for personal attacks or opinions vented towards anyone here.
 
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