Horrifying prospect for any digital M8 8.2 owner!!!

[johannielscom]

To introduce a different angle in this (sometimes rude-commented) thread, here's a bunch of questions:

Is the manufacturer of those Leica-used screens known? Are they still producing the screens? Is the same screen used in other types of cameras?

How difficult a DIY repair is this screen-swapping?

 

[EdwardKaraa]

Just a small comparison. A Leica MP that will last your entire life time is 5000$. A Leica M9P is around 7000$. So that means you're getting the Leica MP components, plus a FF sensor and all related electronics for just 2000$ extra. That is very cheap in Leica standards. I think a M9P should be more like 12000$ and I'm sure Leica would provide parts for the next 50 years not 5 if you pay this price 😉

 

[Eric T]

Consider the cost of the film and processing on an M3 over the six years since the M8 was introduced. Consider what it would have cost you to have those M8 images shot on film. High quality digital cameras have a high up-front cost but the cost per frame just keeps going down the more you shoot. Not so with film... (as much as I like it).

 

[jaapv]

Any manufacturer makes an estimate of the percentage of parts that may fail related to the estimated number of cameras they will sell to ensure availability for repairs. One thing we know for sure : Leica sold three times the number of M8s they expected - it may be the explanation of his problem.

 

[Kent]

Any manufacturer makes an estimate of the percentage of parts that may fail related to the estimated number of cameras they will sell to ensure availability for repairs. One thing we know for sure : Leica sold three times the number of M8s they expected - it may be the explanation of his problem.

You've got a point there.

 

[Timmy P]

Damn, you have just alienated an awful lot of RFF members on this board with a statement like that...😉 Your opinion is your own, not anymore right than anyone else's but like arseholes, sometimes it is just plain rude to let them be heard.

I've chewed through so much buying and selling I lost my attachment to brands, except maybe Nikon 😉. I worked at an online camera store for a while as well so I'm used to quick judgements about products I feel have shortcomings, but I mean no offense 🙂

If I can elaborate a bit, I mean dog because it needed if filters, it's image quality really wasn't all that great for the $$$ and it wasn't full frame, all factors I feel for a digicam of its time make it a very average product. To draw an allegory, I feel the m8 was like the m5, a bit strange, with cool ideas but with flawed execution. The m9 is so fantastic I just don't think an m8 makes sense personally.

Of course I'm sure others have managed to get some fantastic images out of it, but I definitely didnt break a sweat when I parted with mine and went back to my trusty bessa r2a & full frame Nikon. But if anyones got some spare cash sling it my way cause I'd almost die for an MM 😀

Back to the original topic, if the LCD unit is identical for the m9 and m8 and Leica supply's third party repairers with parts then I think a viable work around will exist at least until they stop parts for the the m9 🙁

 

[Roger Hicks]

I've chewed through so much buying and selling I lost my attachment to brands, except maybe Nikon 😉. I worked at an online camera store for a while as well so I'm used to quick judgements about products I feel have shortcomings, but I mean no offense 🙂

If I can elaborate a bit, I mean dog because it needed if filters, it's image quality really wasn't all that great for the $$$ and it wasn't full frame, all factors I feel for a digicam of its time make it a very average product. To draw an allegory, I feel the m8 was like the m5, a bit strange, with cool ideas but with flawed execution. The m9 is so fantastic I just don't think an m8 makes sense personally.

Of course I'm sure others have managed to get some fantastic images out of it, but I definitely didnt break a sweat when I parted with mine and went back to my trusty bessa r2a & full frame Nikon. But if anyones got some spare cash sling it my way cause I'd almost die for an MM 😀

Back to the original topic, if the LCD unit is identical for the m9 and m8 and Leica supply's third party repairers with parts then I think a viable work around will exist at least until they stop parts for the the m9 🙁

Of course there were dozens of RF alternatives...

Come to think of it, I've chewed through so much buying and selling that over the years that based on experience, I've developed some attachment to brands...

Cheers,

R.

 

[daveleo]

Any manufacturer makes an estimate of the percentage of parts that may fail related to the estimated number of cameras they will sell to ensure availability for repairs. One thing we know for sure : Leica sold three times the number of M8s they expected - it may be the explanation of his problem.

Interesting viewpoint. . . . . When the customer base for your product design turns out to be 300% of what you expected, it's time to throw the customers overboard and move on to your next "lifelong product" design . . . . ?

I don't own Leica stuff (except for my loved D2, now under glass in the parlor), and I'll let them decide how to run their business. I complain about this situation (if it is real) because it hurts to see loyal customers of any product get screwed, but . . . I don't quite get how customers can defend what Leica is doing because they are Leica.

A fine reputation in 35mm film cameras can carry you just so far, you know?

 

[jamato8]

Leica advertises the M9 as a camera for life. If they are already stopping coverage for the M8, no matter if they had stockpiled enough parts or not, to me, the quality of Leica as a company has taken a dump. So we relegate the M digitals to throw away cameras? I have Canon digitals that are older than the M8 that are still serviced. I son't care about the difference in the size of the two companies. If Leica stops supporting this new of a camera they have stopped supported their customers.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Interesting viewpoint. . . . . When the customer base for your product design turns out to be 300% of what you expected, it's time to throw the customers overboard and move on to your next "lifelong product" design . . . . ?. . .

Hold on. Try some clear thinking here. How would you personally, have planned things better?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Leica advertises the M9 as a camera for life. If they are already stopping coverage for the M8, no matter if they had stockpiled enough parts or not, to me, the quality of Leica as a company has taken a dump. . .

No question. So do you try to remedy this, based on a more realistic business model of selling a lot more cameras? Or what? What are the REAL alternatives?

Cheers,

R.

 

[daveleo]

Hold on. Try some clear thinking here. How would you personally, have planned things better?

Cheers,

R.

I personally could NOT have planned the market demand for the M8 any better than Leica did.


Edit: Roger, if you are asking me to run Leica ? . . . I don't want the job. Too hard.

 

[Ben Z]

I sold my M8 after I got the M9, so this isn't impacting me immediately. I was under the impression however that the M9 uses the same LCD, so if there aren't any more, it would affect M9 and MMonochromes immediately also. My M9 is under warranty for another month, and then the one year extension I bought kicks in, so I assume if Leica doesn't want a legal problem, they will replace my camera for the cost of repairs if they can't repair it. But this is a good wake-up call for me. I will not be buying any future Leicas until they demonstrate they support these cameras at least as long as Canon. I just had my 5D fixed, and it is older than the M8.

 

[pieter]

No question. So do you try to remedy this, based on a more realistic business model of selling a lot more cameras? Or what? What are the REAL alternatives?

Cheers,

R.

Well, I guess it was fantastic thinking that led some of us to unrealistically hope that Leica somehow could do better than other companies. Maybe inspired by how Leica managed to be special in the field of film.
Now it just dawned on us that thinking Leica digital is more dependable than other companies is illogical.

Realistically dependability in the digital field is better served by bigger companies who more easily manage to adapt to market response to their product and who can thus more easily adapt spare parts policies.

This only leaves the feeling that Leica could be more honest about the dependability of their digital camera's. Leave out the "life time" myth, if you cant service your camera's after so few years.

 

[Richard G]

Look at Bob's post above about the dreaded coffee stain issue. We don't yet know how Leica's overall approach to obselescence will work out. I didn't buy an M9-P for life. It got me using my lenses on a great digital, saving $30-60 peer week and at least 1 hour of a weekend. If it lasts ten years I'll be happy and it will have more than paid for itself. When it breaks and can't be repaired I can decide whether to continue to pay a Leica premium with the M9-Z or switch to the Fuji X-Pro 27 and the range of compact f1 pancake telephotos.

 

[Bob Michaels]

I still have my M6 and M4-2. A digital module that replaces the back makes much more sense than this insanity we digital M owners now face. It an aftermarket module was made, I would buy that rather than a new M digital!

These are usually announced April 1st each year. Someone also announces a replacement for the 35mm film cartridge that includes a thin sensor across the film plane so you can shoot digital with nothing more than your old 35mm film camera.

I suspect there will be some announcements on April Fool's day 2013 just like previous years.

 

[zuiko85]

As said, ever since dedicated electronic circuits and components entered the picture, from about 1975, all these cameras become unrepairable eventually. I like Olympus, but except for the all mechanical OM-1 they all use dedicated, long out of production flexible circuit boards. When these go belly up the camera is a doorstop, and it's not even good at being a doorstop. (yeah, I know the OM-3 is mechanical, but it has a complex metering circuit) Harvested parts from carcass cameras you say? How long will that last?

I think all digital cameras are more closely related to a laptop than a mechanical film camera.

But of course, a small percentage of M8-2's will probably last 30 or more years if you can still get battery/power, memory, and software support for them.

What about a digital module for film M's? Perhaps that is something Roger Hicks can bring up with the industry insiders at Photokina. The Leica Co. wouldn't even have to be involved at all, completely a third party enterprise. And of course I'm always rooting for a luminance only B&W sensor option too.

 

[grantb]

A digital back for film Ms may be a pipedream, but if Leica was really interested in making the digital Ms "for life", they would be designed this way. The digital bit would be very expensive no doubt, but I think still an attractive option and a big selling point.

 

[willie_901]

I can afford to go to the casino often, but does that make spending money there a good idea.

I can afford a digital M...

 

[thegman]

I would suggest that digital camera owners should probably all know/accept that eventually their cameras will break and be worth nothing. That is the nature of electronics vs. mechanical items. However, all the time they've been using that camera, they've not been filling it with film, perhaps if every time they shot 36 frames, they could put a fiver into a bank account, and use it to buy the next camera.

Digital cameras will not last like old mechanical ones, we all know that, and all knew it when buying, but the lack of cost of running I expect more than makes up for it.