SquashPhotographer
Newbie
I am an experienced DSLR user with a Canon 1D MKIII and a 1Ds MKIII with which I am very happy. I have an assignment in Kuwait next month and am considering getting an M8 so as to have something to walk around with that is less ostentatious than the Canons, but which will let me take some shots that I will be pleased with.
I have called my local professional dealer in St. Louis, and although they are a Leica dealer, they only get the M8 on special order. I have never owned a rangefinder camera before, so I really would like to spend a little time with one in my hands before making such a big purchase. In addition, I am concerned that I will be unhappy with the picture quality in comparison to my 1Ds, so I would like to take some comparison shots.
I have bought quite a bit of equipment from Adorama, so I suppose I could see if they would ship one and take it back if I didn't like it.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Any help much appreciated.
David.
I have called my local professional dealer in St. Louis, and although they are a Leica dealer, they only get the M8 on special order. I have never owned a rangefinder camera before, so I really would like to spend a little time with one in my hands before making such a big purchase. In addition, I am concerned that I will be unhappy with the picture quality in comparison to my 1Ds, so I would like to take some comparison shots.
I have bought quite a bit of equipment from Adorama, so I suppose I could see if they would ship one and take it back if I didn't like it.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Any help much appreciated.
David.
swoop
Well-known
Ick. If you've never used a rangefinder before. It's going to take some getting used to.
Riccis
Well-known
Inquire to your authorized Leica dealer about Leica's current rental program for the M8 and the Summarit line. I believe it will cost you around $50 to rent the camera and a lens for a weekend.
If your dealer is not currently participating in this program they can join or contact some of the other major dealers such as B&H, Adorama, Sammys, etc...
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Riccis
If your dealer is not currently participating in this program they can join or contact some of the other major dealers such as B&H, Adorama, Sammys, etc...
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Riccis
Richard Marks
Rexel
I am not sure about the set up in the US but in the UK if you are aleready a Leica owner there is no charge. If not the charge is £50 refundable if you purchase. I know for a fact my local dealer has not charged any one for a demo, but its a long way to travel just for that!
Richard
Richard
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
You won't be unhappy with the image quality, but you might be unhappy with the rangefinder/manual experience. There is no way around it, you will have to rent somehow....
Ben Z
Veteran
As others have said, getting used to the rangefinder viewfinder vs reflex takes some practice. You don't see d.o.f. in the finder, and you have to mentally compose outside the marked framelines in varying degrees depending on how close or far the focus is set on your lens (decrease in focal length with extension). Nobody but you knows your capacity to adapt but for me it would take longer than a month unless I was shooting constantly day in and day out.
I travel with one M8, and use a p&s as a backup, but I am not shooting for an assignment. If I did, I would feel obligated to buy a second M8 because, without getting into the M8's reliability issues, any camera can falter. If it happens to me, I can live with the results from the DLux-3, but I shoot for fun, not profit.
I might suggest that if all you want is something less ostentatious than your 1-series Canon's, why not a 5D, 40D or even the 10-mp Rebel/KISS? I still have and use a 20D (8mp) and when properly post-processed the prints are (to my and my viewers's eyes) not noticably inferior to those from the M8, even though if I view the RAW (or DNG) @ 100% the Canon (CMOS + AA filter) look weaker.
usayit
Well-known
I say bring your regular (nice) equipment for your assignment... stick to what works and what you know... Bring along a film M-body + one lens (borrowed or rented) and some B&W film.
Of course, I have no idea if film is still feasible in your line of work.
Local camera shop I go to has a bag+M8+35mm Summarit+75mm Summarit as a packaged rental deal. I agree.. there's no way around it.. you have to either rent or risk the investment on something you might not like.
A Canon G9 would be a nice P&S for those type of assignments.
Of course, I have no idea if film is still feasible in your line of work.
Local camera shop I go to has a bag+M8+35mm Summarit+75mm Summarit as a packaged rental deal. I agree.. there's no way around it.. you have to either rent or risk the investment on something you might not like.
A Canon G9 would be a nice P&S for those type of assignments.
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DaveB
Established
Threads like this must drive sales professionals crazy.
I started investigating the M8 exactly 12 mos. ago and finally bought one in April of 2007.
I'm in a rural area, but with easy and frequent access to Boston. I made several phone inquiries to see who had a camera in stock that I could examine. I had shot with Leica rangefinders years ago, but had never handled an M8.
In general, the dealers I spoke with could not have been less interested in me. That I was expressing interest in acquiring a $5K camera, and the future sales that that would engender, in most cases did not result in my phone calls being returned.
I expanded my search down towards, but not into, NYC and had no better luck.
To make a long story short, I bought a new M8 from Amazon.com largely because of the generous return privileges they offered. Since then I've never regretted acquiring the camera. As you can imagine, the initial purchase was just the beginning of an Eliot Spitzer-like spend fest on lenses and leather.
I've bought from a couple Leica dealers now, but only by mail. From others I'm still waiting for them to return my calls.
I started investigating the M8 exactly 12 mos. ago and finally bought one in April of 2007.
I'm in a rural area, but with easy and frequent access to Boston. I made several phone inquiries to see who had a camera in stock that I could examine. I had shot with Leica rangefinders years ago, but had never handled an M8.
In general, the dealers I spoke with could not have been less interested in me. That I was expressing interest in acquiring a $5K camera, and the future sales that that would engender, in most cases did not result in my phone calls being returned.
I expanded my search down towards, but not into, NYC and had no better luck.
To make a long story short, I bought a new M8 from Amazon.com largely because of the generous return privileges they offered. Since then I've never regretted acquiring the camera. As you can imagine, the initial purchase was just the beginning of an Eliot Spitzer-like spend fest on lenses and leather.
I've bought from a couple Leica dealers now, but only by mail. From others I'm still waiting for them to return my calls.
SquashPhotographer
Newbie
Thanks for all the advice
Thanks for all the advice
A big thank you to all who responded to my dilemma.
First an apology for creating the impression that I was considering using an M8 for an assignment. I shoot fast action indoor sport where ISO 1600 is a normal requisite, and 3200 is often needed so I will not be giving up my Canons for an M8. The M8 is under consideration simply as a carry around camera for pleasure shooting, and would be an addition to my gear.
I do actually have a Canon 40D that I use for candids at the events, and I had thought about using it for a carry around. The trouble is that it encourages you to take the same shot as you would with the 1Ds, but doesn't let you do it so well. So if you only want to take snapshots then why not just carry a point and shoot, on the other hand, if you want to be serious, and you have a 1Ds, it is difficult not to take it with you rather than the 40D. The attraction of the Leica is that it is SO different that it presumably makes you think about the photograph in a different way, and so is not competing with the 1Ds.
The suggestions that a rental is the way to go, make the most sense, and it was hugely helpful to learn of the rental / loaner program. I e-mailed my salesman at Adorama to see if he could help with a rental, but not surprisingly have to date not heard anything back from him. A Google search brought up Popflash. I had seen them mentioned in glowing tones in some posts, so decided to give them a call. I have to say that DaveB's experience with the big name dealers mirrors mine. Maybe they get calls all day long from people who are seriously interested in spending ten to twenty thousand dollars on a body and some lenses, and that is why they can't spend more than 30 seconds on the phone with you, but I doubt it! Popflash is the absolute antithesis of these dealers. Tony was as helpful as could be, and was quite happy to talk me through the rental program and answer my, what to him must have been really dumb, questions about how the camera actually worked. He ran through what I needed to do to set up the rental (which is actually more of a loaner program provided you get it back to them in a week) and even offered to send it out last night!
Needless to say, I was delighted to get the deal set up, and am now, courtesy of Fedex, the happy possessor of a rental M8 together with 35mm and 75mm Summarit lenses!! So far I have just unpacked it and gone through the basic setup, and haven't even read the manual.
First thoughts on the M8 are :-
How can the lenses be so tiny and still be F2.5! As I understand it, these lenses have the coverage to work with a full frame sensor, so should be compared for bulk to my Canon EF lenses, not the EF-S ones.
Very, very glad that the lens mount works in the same direction as the Canon one, and not like Nikon which was always counter-intuitive for me.
Not at all sure how I will get used to a viewfinder that sort of shows you the image area with the inner marks, but actually includes an area between the inner and outer markings as well. Is this just so that you can be sure that if there is any viewfinder error, you are still assured of getting everything within the inner markings recorded?
Refreshingly simple camera setup and menu structure compared to the mutli tabbed 1Ds menus, let alone the Canon's 57 custom settings!!
------------------
I'll try taking some shots with the M8 over the next couple of days, and if I get anything that is vaguely presentable I'll post it, possibly with a comparison from the 1Ds.
Based on my experience so far, I can not recommend Tony and Popflash too highly. Just the sort of buying experience one would hope for, helpful, knowledgeable and they actually have the stuff.
Once again thanks to everyone for getting me to this point.
David.
Thanks for all the advice
A big thank you to all who responded to my dilemma.
First an apology for creating the impression that I was considering using an M8 for an assignment. I shoot fast action indoor sport where ISO 1600 is a normal requisite, and 3200 is often needed so I will not be giving up my Canons for an M8. The M8 is under consideration simply as a carry around camera for pleasure shooting, and would be an addition to my gear.
I do actually have a Canon 40D that I use for candids at the events, and I had thought about using it for a carry around. The trouble is that it encourages you to take the same shot as you would with the 1Ds, but doesn't let you do it so well. So if you only want to take snapshots then why not just carry a point and shoot, on the other hand, if you want to be serious, and you have a 1Ds, it is difficult not to take it with you rather than the 40D. The attraction of the Leica is that it is SO different that it presumably makes you think about the photograph in a different way, and so is not competing with the 1Ds.
The suggestions that a rental is the way to go, make the most sense, and it was hugely helpful to learn of the rental / loaner program. I e-mailed my salesman at Adorama to see if he could help with a rental, but not surprisingly have to date not heard anything back from him. A Google search brought up Popflash. I had seen them mentioned in glowing tones in some posts, so decided to give them a call. I have to say that DaveB's experience with the big name dealers mirrors mine. Maybe they get calls all day long from people who are seriously interested in spending ten to twenty thousand dollars on a body and some lenses, and that is why they can't spend more than 30 seconds on the phone with you, but I doubt it! Popflash is the absolute antithesis of these dealers. Tony was as helpful as could be, and was quite happy to talk me through the rental program and answer my, what to him must have been really dumb, questions about how the camera actually worked. He ran through what I needed to do to set up the rental (which is actually more of a loaner program provided you get it back to them in a week) and even offered to send it out last night!
Needless to say, I was delighted to get the deal set up, and am now, courtesy of Fedex, the happy possessor of a rental M8 together with 35mm and 75mm Summarit lenses!! So far I have just unpacked it and gone through the basic setup, and haven't even read the manual.
First thoughts on the M8 are :-
How can the lenses be so tiny and still be F2.5! As I understand it, these lenses have the coverage to work with a full frame sensor, so should be compared for bulk to my Canon EF lenses, not the EF-S ones.
Very, very glad that the lens mount works in the same direction as the Canon one, and not like Nikon which was always counter-intuitive for me.
Not at all sure how I will get used to a viewfinder that sort of shows you the image area with the inner marks, but actually includes an area between the inner and outer markings as well. Is this just so that you can be sure that if there is any viewfinder error, you are still assured of getting everything within the inner markings recorded?
Refreshingly simple camera setup and menu structure compared to the mutli tabbed 1Ds menus, let alone the Canon's 57 custom settings!!
------------------
I'll try taking some shots with the M8 over the next couple of days, and if I get anything that is vaguely presentable I'll post it, possibly with a comparison from the 1Ds.
Based on my experience so far, I can not recommend Tony and Popflash too highly. Just the sort of buying experience one would hope for, helpful, knowledgeable and they actually have the stuff.
Once again thanks to everyone for getting me to this point.
David.
ramosa
B&W
some folks say that it takes a long time to get used to a rangefinder. i, for one, disagree. i purchased my first RF (an M8) three weeks ago, love it, feel quite comfortable with it ... and, as a result, am currently selling my nikon gear on ebay. of course, your preference will depend on how and what you shoot ... which, for me, led to a simple and indubitable conclusion. anyway, best of luck in your pondering and on your trip to kuwait.
MelS
Member
trying out an M8
trying out an M8
I was just in NY and rented an M8 for 2 days from Photo Village to photograph my 7 wk old grandson. I had two lenses with me: a Leica 50mm and a 90mm.
The results were amazing and very alive. The camera works like a charm and seems to love low light.
The only problem was giving it up.
trying out an M8
I was just in NY and rented an M8 for 2 days from Photo Village to photograph my 7 wk old grandson. I had two lenses with me: a Leica 50mm and a 90mm.
The results were amazing and very alive. The camera works like a charm and seems to love low light.
The only problem was giving it up.
JWW
Established
Yes, Popflash is the best. Don't know what you mean exactly regarding inner and outer markings but don't forget the m8 will show multiple lens framing within each view. If you have the 35mm lens installed, the inner frame is for the 35 and the outer is for the 24mm. Same with the 50mm/75mm view, the 75mm is the inner one with the corner brackets.
Jan
Jan
Bob Parsons
Established
I assume the lenses came with UV-IR filters since it is a rental kit, if not you may have a few suprises.
Bob.
DaveB
Established
He won't notice a thing until the leaves start coming out.
SquashPhotographer
Newbie
Drizzly day in St. Louis
Drizzly day in St. Louis
I did have the sense to ask Tony about the UV filters, and of course he had it taken care of already.
Miserable weather in St. Louis today, but we did find a long enough break in the rain to take the dog for a walk and I tried a few shots without getting Tony's camera wet! I have to say that I found it very difficult. Focusing on the moving dog was all but impossible. I suspect that I selected some of the most difficult things to try for a first outing. I am sure there are a lot of easier things to focus on than a mass of tree branches going in all directions and at all different distances from the camera.
However. The images (even if rubbish for content) did have an interesting quality to them, and Aperture seems to process the DNG files really nicely. Somehow the images do encourage you to try and make something of them, and I am not too discouraged by these two. Both are unfortunately smallish crops from the original, and the second one has been manipulated a bit in Aperture!! I'll post the original for comparison.
Hopefully the weather is better tomorrow and I can experiment some more.
David.
Drizzly day in St. Louis
I did have the sense to ask Tony about the UV filters, and of course he had it taken care of already.
Miserable weather in St. Louis today, but we did find a long enough break in the rain to take the dog for a walk and I tried a few shots without getting Tony's camera wet! I have to say that I found it very difficult. Focusing on the moving dog was all but impossible. I suspect that I selected some of the most difficult things to try for a first outing. I am sure there are a lot of easier things to focus on than a mass of tree branches going in all directions and at all different distances from the camera.
However. The images (even if rubbish for content) did have an interesting quality to them, and Aperture seems to process the DNG files really nicely. Somehow the images do encourage you to try and make something of them, and I am not too discouraged by these two. Both are unfortunately smallish crops from the original, and the second one has been manipulated a bit in Aperture!! I'll post the original for comparison.
Hopefully the weather is better tomorrow and I can experiment some more.
David.
Attachments
SquashPhotographer
Newbie
Why are my photos shown as thumbnails?
Why are my photos shown as thumbnails?
I'm sure it should be obvious, but could someone tell me how I should have included my photo so they show up full size in the post, and not as thumbnails? I used the upload feature, and don't think that I selected a thumbnail option.
David.
Why are my photos shown as thumbnails?
I'm sure it should be obvious, but could someone tell me how I should have included my photo so they show up full size in the post, and not as thumbnails? I used the upload feature, and don't think that I selected a thumbnail option.
David.
kino eye
kino eye
Going from SLR to rangefinder can take sometime to get used to. Moving subjects are tricky. I shoot a lot of street and often times preset to F8 and pre-focus to 8 or 10ft. This way I can just put the camera to my eye fast and make a minor adjustment or two and get the shot. Nice thing is you can practice this on digital and not waste the film.