FrankS
Registered User
Different chemicals, a few more steps, tighter temp control,... did I miss anything?
Is anyone here processing colour neg film at home?
Is anyone here processing colour neg film at home?
Borghesia
Well-known
If you can bake an egg, then you can do C41. The only thing is to keep the temperature at 38 c. You need a good thermometer for that. With most kits there are only 2 steps, developing and blixing, then 3 min. washing and a 1 minute dunk in a stabilizer.
The easiest way is to use a tempering bath like a Jobo TBE to warm up the chemicals.
This takes half and hour, and will be kept exactly at the desired temperature.
The rest of the process is as easy as B&W but faster.
The easiest way is to use a tempering bath like a Jobo TBE to warm up the chemicals.
This takes half and hour, and will be kept exactly at the desired temperature.
The rest of the process is as easy as B&W but faster.
Mackinaw
Think Different
Pretty simple to do, in many ways easier than B&W. A water bath is about essential in keeping the developer at 38 degrees C. The only possible problem is adding on more developing time the more you re-use the chemicals. There are also those who insist you'll get much better results by using C41 chemistry with separate bleach and fix (not a blix). I'm hardly an expert on C41, I still have access to a good C41 lab, but will do for 120 if time is the issue.
Jim B.
Jim B.
zauhar
Veteran
Actually, I had a question about this too - I read over the developing instructions for the C-41 kit that freestyle sells. I think it is translated (poorly) from another language, and it mentions a couple of times that the reel and film should be pre-warmed. How is one supposed to do that specifically? Should the film in the tank be presoaked (with water?) in constant temp bath?
Randy
Randy
Mackinaw
Think Different
I pre-soak the tank/reel/film in water for a few minutes at 38C as well as keep the developer and tank (stainless steel) in a water bath at 38C - 40C. Mind you that the water bath will cool fairly quickly so you have to closely watch temps to catch everything at it's peak. I suggest going through a "dry" run to get a handle of the temperature thing. Once you get it figured out, it really isn't that hard.
Jim B.
FrankS
Registered User
So one loads wet film onto wet reels?
mervynyan
Mervyn Yan
have you thought about buying an old one-hour photo lab machine? sure there are a lot kodak and fuji dangs out there.
zauhar
Veteran
With Frank, I also am still not getting the picture. Do you load the reel with film, and put the tank + film in the water "dry" (no fluid inside), so that the whole apparatus heats up? Or do you put water into the tank?
If it is dry, I can't imaging the film would heat up effectively.
Randy
If it is dry, I can't imaging the film would heat up effectively.
Randy
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
I have been doing my own C-41 for about 18 months now, mostly because it's a PITA to get my C-41 120 / 220 films done where I live. Plus, I like the alchemy and magic involved.
It is no harder than doing B&W processing -- in fact, I agree with mackinaw, it's almost easier than doing B&W.
Here's my process, from start to finish.
1. Prepare a picnic cooler (the ones made of hard plastic, that have insulation for keeping drinks cool, about 10L / 10 quarts in volume), and fill it with warm tap water. Use a thermometer to approximate 38 deg C. Place the bottles of pre-mixed C-41 chemicals inside the bath.
2. While the chems are warming up, I assemble the Paterson tanks & reels that I need (dry, not wet). I then head into my bathroom and load the films as normal.
3. I bring the loaded Paterson tanks to the sink. I pre-warm the tanks (with film inside) with warm tap water for 1-2 minutes.
4. I pour out the tap water from the Paterson tanks. I remove the bottles of C-41 chemicals from the picnic cooler, and set them on the counter. I double check the temp of the bath water, to make sure it's at or near 38 deg C.
5. I begin processing as per the kit directions. This is where things are a little tricky. The timing and temps are somewhat critical here, and 3'15" doesn't give you a lot of time for fudging around. I agitate for the 1st 30 seconds, then let the Paterson tank rest in the bath, then agitate again for 10 seconds every minute.
6. I rinse with warm tap water between dev and blix stages. The blix is easily contaminated by the developer, and will supposedly lose effectiveness very quickly, so I just do a quick rinse to be sure.
7. Temps on the blix and flo stages are much less critical than the dev stage. I relax at this point and enjoy the harsh, carcinogenic fumes of the blix. It's usually at this point where I question my sanity and wonder why I do this at all.
8. Results? The first few rolls of fresh chemistry are always spectacular. I have tried using the same batch of C-41 chemicals for 10 rolls or so, but found that the quality started to diminish. I tend to just mix up what I need for 3-4 rolls, and use it right away. I don't think the C-41 chems keep very well once they've been mixed.
My experience has led me to believe that the 38 deg C / 100F temperature point is very important but it's not a make-or-break kind of thing. I've accidentally developed at 40 deg C, and it's been fine. The modern C-41 chemistry is reasonably forgiving.
Good luck with your C-41 adventures.
It is no harder than doing B&W processing -- in fact, I agree with mackinaw, it's almost easier than doing B&W.
Here's my process, from start to finish.
1. Prepare a picnic cooler (the ones made of hard plastic, that have insulation for keeping drinks cool, about 10L / 10 quarts in volume), and fill it with warm tap water. Use a thermometer to approximate 38 deg C. Place the bottles of pre-mixed C-41 chemicals inside the bath.
2. While the chems are warming up, I assemble the Paterson tanks & reels that I need (dry, not wet). I then head into my bathroom and load the films as normal.
3. I bring the loaded Paterson tanks to the sink. I pre-warm the tanks (with film inside) with warm tap water for 1-2 minutes.
4. I pour out the tap water from the Paterson tanks. I remove the bottles of C-41 chemicals from the picnic cooler, and set them on the counter. I double check the temp of the bath water, to make sure it's at or near 38 deg C.
5. I begin processing as per the kit directions. This is where things are a little tricky. The timing and temps are somewhat critical here, and 3'15" doesn't give you a lot of time for fudging around. I agitate for the 1st 30 seconds, then let the Paterson tank rest in the bath, then agitate again for 10 seconds every minute.
6. I rinse with warm tap water between dev and blix stages. The blix is easily contaminated by the developer, and will supposedly lose effectiveness very quickly, so I just do a quick rinse to be sure.
7. Temps on the blix and flo stages are much less critical than the dev stage. I relax at this point and enjoy the harsh, carcinogenic fumes of the blix. It's usually at this point where I question my sanity and wonder why I do this at all.
8. Results? The first few rolls of fresh chemistry are always spectacular. I have tried using the same batch of C-41 chemicals for 10 rolls or so, but found that the quality started to diminish. I tend to just mix up what I need for 3-4 rolls, and use it right away. I don't think the C-41 chems keep very well once they've been mixed.
My experience has led me to believe that the 38 deg C / 100F temperature point is very important but it's not a make-or-break kind of thing. I've accidentally developed at 40 deg C, and it's been fine. The modern C-41 chemistry is reasonably forgiving.
Good luck with your C-41 adventures.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
BTW, my method is probably not completely kosher to some people ... I just use my normal Paterson tanks, with plastic reels. Some people would argue that stainless steel tanks and reels are better, and they're probably right. I use the plastic gear because it's what I have lying around.
So yes, to elaborate -- the film is loaded onto DRY reels, and put into DRY tanks, just like you would normally do with B&W processing. The only difference is that I pre-heat the film INSIDE the Paterson tanks with warm water BEFORE I begin processing.
Good luck!
So yes, to elaborate -- the film is loaded onto DRY reels, and put into DRY tanks, just like you would normally do with B&W processing. The only difference is that I pre-heat the film INSIDE the Paterson tanks with warm water BEFORE I begin processing.
Good luck!
valdas
Veteran
Am I misteken or Rollei Digibase C-41 gives four development times at four different temperatures - 3m15s at 38C, 2min at 45C, 13min at 25C, and 21min at 20C (this is in their instruction manual). I have just bought the kit of 5l of this developer and will try at 25C...
Uncle Bill
Well-known
Interesting thread and I have a Question, are c-41 kits available in Canada?
Mackinaw
Think Different
Load film onto reel. Pour in water at 38C - 40C for a few minute pre-soak. Pour out the water and then add the developer at 38C. I have everything in a water bath (in a wash tub in our laundry room) that is kept at about 38C - 40C.
I suggest a test roll first just to get the hang of it. It sounds harder than it is.
Jim B.
grainhound
Well-known
Frank and Bill: the biggest obstacle to your developing C-41 chemistry is that there is no Canadian distributor who will carry it. I did a lot of searching a year or two ago, including a chemical company in Montreal who used to bring the chemicals in separately, and they couldn't supply them anymore. I don't remember the details, or why they couldn't get them.
I spoke to the person in charge of such things at Henry's, and her story was that the Canadian distributors had dropped all C-41 chemistry "due to lack of demand". It seems no one will bring it in. Stan at Downtown Camera said the same thing, though he usually goes off on how you should get with the times and just shoot digital.
I called Freestyle a month or two ago, specifically about Rollei Digibase C-41 because it's been getting great reviews. Freestyle cannot ship it because it's a liquid. I'm not even sure you could get a friend or relative in the States to ship it because of that. I'm not up on postal restrictions, especially U.S. ones. At the moment Freestyle shows that they carry Arista, Rollei, and Unicolor (a powder kit). All but the Unicolor is ground shipping only (anywhere), and I would guess that their story on not shipping liquids to Canada is still true. I would hold out for Rollei or Tetenal anyway. B&H Photo carries Tetenal and ships it to Canada for 8 bucks and change (for shipping).
I haven't driven to California for a while, but when I do I'll fill up the trunk of the car with C-41 chemistry. Not this summer; I haven't bought the car yet.
I spoke to the person in charge of such things at Henry's, and her story was that the Canadian distributors had dropped all C-41 chemistry "due to lack of demand". It seems no one will bring it in. Stan at Downtown Camera said the same thing, though he usually goes off on how you should get with the times and just shoot digital.
I called Freestyle a month or two ago, specifically about Rollei Digibase C-41 because it's been getting great reviews. Freestyle cannot ship it because it's a liquid. I'm not even sure you could get a friend or relative in the States to ship it because of that. I'm not up on postal restrictions, especially U.S. ones. At the moment Freestyle shows that they carry Arista, Rollei, and Unicolor (a powder kit). All but the Unicolor is ground shipping only (anywhere), and I would guess that their story on not shipping liquids to Canada is still true. I would hold out for Rollei or Tetenal anyway. B&H Photo carries Tetenal and ships it to Canada for 8 bucks and change (for shipping).
I haven't driven to California for a while, but when I do I'll fill up the trunk of the car with C-41 chemistry. Not this summer; I haven't bought the car yet.
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FrankS
Registered User
Hey thanks everyone for all this info! I can do this. I just need the chemicals.
Guy, I'll be heading into TO soon, we should get together.
Guy, I'll be heading into TO soon, we should get together.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
I live in Canada -- B&H used to carry the larger 5L size C-41 and E-6 kits but no longer does so. I used to order from them all the time without any problems, besides a larger S&H fee.
They still carry the Tetenal 1L C-41 kit but, by the time you factor in shipping costs etc., your cost-per-roll is not going to be competitive with taking a roll of film to your local C-41 lab. Now, if the added cost is irrelevant and you're just doing it for the fun of it, then I say 'full steam ahead'.
FWIW I ordered a 5L Rollei-brand kit direct from Germany a month ago, but the postal strike threw that all to heck -- I have no idea where the kit is now or when I'll receive it. They seemed to ship to Canada without any issues.
They still carry the Tetenal 1L C-41 kit but, by the time you factor in shipping costs etc., your cost-per-roll is not going to be competitive with taking a roll of film to your local C-41 lab. Now, if the added cost is irrelevant and you're just doing it for the fun of it, then I say 'full steam ahead'.
FWIW I ordered a 5L Rollei-brand kit direct from Germany a month ago, but the postal strike threw that all to heck -- I have no idea where the kit is now or when I'll receive it. They seemed to ship to Canada without any issues.
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FrankS
Registered User
Is there a kit in powder form? Shipping a kit in powder form from US to Canada should be alright, eh?
Borghesia
Well-known
Frank, this is also a good place for C41 Q&A : http://www.flickr.com/groups/diy_color/discuss/
Chris101
summicronia
Frank, I buy the Unicolor kit from Freestyle - it is pretty economical, and contains no liquid. It makes the 3 bath chemistry, and I have had good luck with it. My procedure is similar to Novatron's, but I just use a tub for the hot water (and scoop out, then add hot water if necessary to keep it at temperature.) I use steel reels cause that's what I have lying around. I keep the used chemistry in 1 liter polypropylene bottles and it keeps for many months. I got 14 rolls of 120 or 36 exp 135 out of a 16 dollar kit.
And I find it easier to do than B&W except for the whole elevated temperature thing.
And I find it easier to do than B&W except for the whole elevated temperature thing.
Tompas
Wannabe Künstler
Yes, of course.
I bought an old Jobo Color Processor a while ago (basically a rotation device in a heated water bed, 50€ with drums and stuff off eBay) and it completely takes away the only difficulty compared to B/W development: tempature control. I now find color even easier than B/W!
I've developed about a 100 rolls since with the Tetenal C41 kit -- no problems, very good results. Very convenient is the fact that one can develop different films in one go, let's say Portra 160 together with BW400CN.