How difficult is C-41 at home?

[dfatty]

I'm guessing you may have seen this on APUG, but just in case you haven't:

http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=1073421
Well, I noticed when i was gently inverting maybe 10 times per 30 seconds that i was gaining a magenta mask on the negatives. The included instruction sheet stated that the magenta mask was a result of 'too vigourous agitation' as I lowered the agitation, the mask began to look clear and normal again.

The poster doesn't say how much less frequently he inverted but at least we know it's less than 10 times every 30 seconds. I know you've tried less inversions but posting just in case your inversions were more frequent.

Also found this, one poster suggests 2 inversions every 15 seconds:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/ishootfilm/discuss/72157626459815541/

I had no idea the agitation for hand processing is so infrequent.

 

[ianstamatic]

what worked for me pre phototherm was :
- its essential too use a digital thermometer available from the pharmacy for about $5.
- i used nikkor steel tanks and reels.
- I would heat a sink of water up using hot and cold taps, very easy with a digital thermometer, and float the chemicals in it, and the dev tank as its processing just spinning it occasionally.
- rinse the film in the correct temp water, dont 'shock' it with cold straight out the tap on final rinse.

 

[zauhar]

Dean, thanks for the responses. I did not see the APUG post, but the Rollei data sheet does warn about over-agitation, and I was worried about that. The last time I inverted four times every 30 secs, which does not seem to be overdoing it. The first trial I was using the spinner (different tank), every 30 sec for maybe 5 sec.

How much solution does the Jobo tank take? Also, I think constant rotation is gong to have a different effect than inversion, e.g.

Your colors look great! I think the only answer is that I am still over-agitating, assuming my chemicals are OK.

Randy

 

[zauhar]

what worked for me pre phototherm was :
- its essential too use a digital thermometer available from the pharmacy for about $5.
- i used nikkor steel tanks and reels.
- I would heat a sink of water up using hot and cold taps, very easy with a digital thermometer, and float the chemicals in it, and the dev tank as its processing just spinning it occasionally.
- rinse the film in the correct temp water, dont 'shock' it with cold straight out the tap on final rinse.

Thanks, I have all that under control (temperature within 0.5 C of target, including the rinse water), except the steel reel. I was using only plastic in these experiments. Would plastic really make that much difference?

Randy

P.S. Please don't change your avatar - sure you heard that before. ;-)

 

[dfatty]

The last time I inverted four times every 30 secs, which does not seem to be overdoing it.
Randy

Hmmm, not sure what to say at this point, it certainly seems like you didn't over agitate and that you have your chemicals at the right temp.

How much solution does the Jobo tank take? Also, I think constant rotation is gong to have a different effect than inversion, e.g.
Randy

I use a large Jobo tank that processes 3-120 reels, and which takes about 600ml per batch, except for the stab, which only comes with 500ml in the 20 roll kit.

And just to add a little more mystery to this, I have to admit that I am a little lax with my processing technique yet it seems to work okay for me. I usually fill the Jobo with very hot tap water (well over 100 deg) and let it sit (with the Jobo heater on 100) for about 30 minutes, then I start my processing. I don't ever check whether the chems have reached temp, I just assume they're close. I'm *okay* with time measurement, but I routinely have 10-15 second flubs when changing chems that haven't resulted in anything catastrophic. So for me, the Rollei kit has been fairly forgiving.

All that said, there are some other folks on APUG who have not had as good an experience. At least one guy thought he had bad chems because the bleach was dark when he received it rather than light in color (like it's supposed to be). That same person tried a second batch and had success. IIRC, someone also mentioned that they had better success with the Tetanal kit. I'm sure you'll be able to get one or the other to work if I was able to.

 

[zauhar]

Dean, my bleach is VERY dark yellow. ;-(

Developer is very dark purple (?), fixer and stabilizer are light in color.

Could that be it? I was careful in measuring, I don't think I screwed up the volume when making the solution.

I have in my hands a tetanal kit, I will try it in the next couple days.

Thanks!

Randy

 

[Platinum RF]

If you have kids, dogs, cats, wifes do not do it at home, you can not let hobby destroy your enviroment poison your love one. These are toxic chemicals.

 

[zauhar]

Dean, now I am really perplexed. I mixed the tetanal chemicals. The tetanal blix looks disturbingly like the rollei developer (purple), the tetanal developer looks disturbingly like the rollei bleach (yellow/orange).

At first I said "you a--hole, you mixed the rollei stuff up!" But I still have half the rollei concentrates, and the "developer part c" is dark purple, the source of the color. Plus I was very careful, double checked everything when mixing. I don't think I made such a dramatic error.

Could you just tell me - what color are your rollei chemicals?

Thanks!

Randy

 

[Jani_from_Finland]

I'll mess with this thread even if i got some answers allready, but i ask you to please understand a beginner.

So i got my packs of Tetenal Rapid Kit 5L C41 and 1L E6 (3 bath) kits today (friday) from Macodirekt.

I have done some bw films (about 30-40 rolls or more) with different devs (Acufine, HC110, Ultrafin liquid) and i understand all-right that process as a beginner.
Well now i have got the Tetenal kits for C41 and E6 and with the c41 my idea is to do normal colour negs, but mainly cross-process from slide films.
The E6 kit (1L, it says for 12 films, but is it critical to throw away after 12 films this E6 chemistry?) is mainly intended for regular slide processing if i get to it.

What is Critical to think about and differance between bw and c41 processing? What should i look out for and be careful with? Any extra hints is Welcome.
Also, i have a lot of outdated films, should i think of something special with the processing of these?

I am using to the start a JOBO 1500 series tank and had agitation (is the chems used more quickly this way compared to the processor method?), i do have an jobo cpe2+ with lift, but not the right tank or even magnet for my current tanks to use with it.

I know answers is propably in previous posts in here and me just missed them, dont get worried, just slam to the ones familiar to you (most apoligize and be precausious as the forums here at home punish immediatly for a single fault or wrongly spelled term) here.

 

[dfatty]

Could you just tell me - what color are your rollei chemicals?

Thanks!

Randy

Hey Randy. Since my chems are 8 months old I'm not sure they are a good guide. In any event, the developer and bleach are very dark in color, while the fixer and stabilizer are light in color. I attached a pic. I've actually never really noticed the color of the developer or bleach, as you can see I keep those in a dark Jobo bottles so their colors aren't obvious. I'm guessing that the bleach was originally lighter in color but has been contaminated by the developer over time.

I think the chances that you mixed it right are good, give it a go and good luck!

 

[dfatty]

What is Critical to think about and differance between bw and c41 processing? What should i look out for and be careful with? Any extra hints is Welcome.
Also, i have a lot of outdated films, should i think of something special with the processing of these?

Hi Jani - My understanding that the most important difference between B&W and C41 is that high temperature control is very important in C41. Also agitation has to be done correctly. Otherwise, I've heard that bw and C41 are not that different. I haven't done any E6, but with C41 all of my film is expired film and I have never had a problem using normal C41 processing.

 

[zauhar]

Dean, your bleach looks like my dev, and vice-versa! Here is a picture, left to right is developer, bleach, fixer:

I have enough concentrates to make another 500ml of each, I will make fresh batches and compare.

In the meantime, I just developed two rolls with the tetanal kit, film is drying now.

If I somehow mixed things up, I will want to shoot myself! The only thing I can imagine is that I carefully mixed the chemicals, then poured them in the wrong bottles.

Thanks for your help, I will post my results.

Randy

 

[zauhar]

I'll mess with this thread even if i got some answers allready, but i ask you to please understand a beginner.

So i got my packs of Tetenal Rapid Kit 5L C41 and 1L E6 (3 bath) kits today (friday) from Macodirekt.

I have done some bw films (about 30-40 rolls or more) with different devs (Acufine, HC110, Ultrafin liquid) and i understand all-right that process as a beginner.
Well now i have got the Tetenal kits for C41 and E6 and with the c41 my idea is to do normal colour negs, but mainly cross-process from slide films.
The E6 kit (1L, it says for 12 films, but is it critical to throw away after 12 films this E6 chemistry?) is mainly intended for regular slide processing if i get to it.

What is Critical to think about and differance between bw and c41 processing? What should i look out for and be careful with? Any extra hints is Welcome.
Also, i have a lot of outdated films, should i think of something special with the processing of these?

I am using to the start a JOBO 1500 series tank and had agitation (is the chems used more quickly this way compared to the processor method?), i do have an jobo cpe2+ with lift, but not the right tank or even magnet for my current tanks to use with it.

I know answers is propably in previous posts in here and me just missed them, dont get worried, just slam to the ones familiar to you (most apoligize and be precausious as the forums here at home punish immediatly for a single fault or wrongly spelled term) here.

Jani, just look at the discussion I had with Dean, and don't follow my example!

Maybe I have it working now, I will know soon.

Finland is a great country, I have been there twice (academic stuff). Glad to see you posting.

Randy

 

[bobby_novatron]

I am an avid Tetenal user, but just received the Rollei kit in the mail.

I'll be reporting back on this in the next few days, as soon as I mix up the juice.

 

[zauhar]

It's official - I am an ass.

My results with the tetanal kit look great ( I will post result later).

Comparing to Dean's photos of his chemicals, it is clear that I put the developer and bleach in the wrong bottles.

What is truly amazing is that despite this, and the fact that development time was completely wrong, I still had "usable" negs! I will cut myself a little slack here, as I would expect catastrophic failure with solutions swapped.

So bobbynovatron should ignore my tale of woe re: the rollei kit, it was all operator error.

Thanks again Dean,

Randy

 

[Mablo]

Hi Randy,

I'm glad you figured it out. I used Tetenal kit before with some great results but changed over to Rollei digibase kit after reading several recommendations on APUG forum. Perhaps the Rollei kit is more durable as people say, can't really comment on that yet but my suggestion is to prolong the development time 15 seconds at the time after a few rolls .

One very colorful photo from Helsinki developed in Rollei kit is below (fill flash used!). Your very nice comment of my country makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Thanks!

 

[anthony_semone]

Thanks to Bobby Novatron for the details - I couldn't figure out what the "preheating" was about.

I just got a bill for $170 from my photo lab (with discount!) for processing a load of color film - I at least want to give the freestyle kit a try.

I borrowed an unwanted water bath from my university, so that should at least make the temperature issue easier to deal with.

Randy

Good grief, Randy, which lab was that?

tony

 

[zauhar]

Good grief, Randy, which lab was that?

tony

Biochem lab, had not been used in a long time. Old and rusty, but should work. Nothing worse than e coli grown in it.

However, I discovered that I can adjust the faucet to better than a degree, plus I really need the water hotter initially to warm up the solutions,
plus i need warm rinse anyway, so the basement laundry tub is better.

Randy

 

[anthony_semone]

Hi Randy,

I'm from outside Chestnut Hill and I'm new to film. Walgreens screwed up my last roll of C-41; the certified (LOL) specialist looked as though she had forgotten to take her Prozac 🙂 Have you had any experience with Philadelphia Photographics?

 

[zauhar]

Anthony, Philadelphia photographic is good, the only place in Philly that handles slide film. They are on Arch (forget the cross street, it's in Chinatown)

For anything else I go to Photo Lounge on Chestnut near 19th street. Prices are reasonable, and their scans are (to my level of discrimination) very good.

Those are literally the only photo labs in Philly I am aware of.

There is an rff group for Philly, did you go to any of the meet ups?

Randy