The Kook
Newbie
How does one tell the difference between a IIIF black dial and red dial? I am new to these cameras and have a IIIF and I am pretty sure it is a red dial but would like to know for sure.
Terence T
Where'd my Bessa go?
Pretty simple. If the numbers on the shutter speed dial base is black, it's a black dial. If red, a red dial then. If it has a self timer, then it's a red dial self timer. 
tajart
ancien
and i thought too, the speeds on the dial were different
black dial speeds are something like 30, 60, 90, 100 etc
red dial 15, 25, 50, 75, 125, 250, etc
and out of curiosity, is it with the IIIf that the top speed went to 1000, or do some only go to 500th?
black dial speeds are something like 30, 60, 90, 100 etc
red dial 15, 25, 50, 75, 125, 250, etc
and out of curiosity, is it with the IIIf that the top speed went to 1000, or do some only go to 500th?
FrankS
Registered User
I may be wrong here, having owned a IIIf for only a short time, I think it is the flash sync numbers that are either black or red.
Solinar, have you got your ears on?
(He has both types, including a super rare Duane ______ a la carte version, said to be the only one in existence.)
Solinar, have you got your ears on?
(He has both types, including a super rare Duane ______ a la carte version, said to be the only one in existence.)
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doubs43
Well-known
Frank is correct; it's the color of the flash sync delay numbers surrounding the base of the shutter speed dial that determines whether it's a black or red dial IIIf.
My present IIIf is a red dial but I've owned a black dial in the past.
Walker
My present IIIf is a red dial but I've owned a black dial in the past.
Walker
All Leica IIIf s go to 1/1000th. Older Leica III's and Leica II's go to 1/500th.
Terence T
Where'd my Bessa go?
My apologies, it's been a while since I set eyes on a IIIf. Was trying to recall from memory. Pretty close though... in the region of the shutter speed dial
FrankS
Registered User
No worries, Terence. Is that gear really for sale, or is that just how you're listing it?
Terence T
Where'd my Bessa go?
It is for sale Frank, the signature doesn't have room to allow me to list everything. Making room for more incoming gear! Interested? Drop me an email
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Sorry to be late to the thread, but as the owner of that one and only a la carte IIIf, which is a black dial, let me say that they are fine shooters.
Not a big issue, but I like the shutter speed progression on the IIIf BD, which has as mentioned black paint in the engravings for the flash delay. I keep synch dial set at the number 2, just in case that I should ever feel the urger to use a flash unit someday.
The shutter speed progression on the black dial IIIf is 1, 2, 4, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 60, 100, 200, 500, 1000, B.
The red dial shutter speed progression is 1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, 75, 100, 200, 500, 1000, B. It's flash synched at 25, with the synch dial set to 0 and at 1/50th, with the synch dial set to a 20 millesecond delay.
The IIIf comes both with and without a self-timer lever.
Not a big issue, but I like the shutter speed progression on the IIIf BD, which has as mentioned black paint in the engravings for the flash delay. I keep synch dial set at the number 2, just in case that I should ever feel the urger to use a flash unit someday.
The shutter speed progression on the black dial IIIf is 1, 2, 4, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 60, 100, 200, 500, 1000, B.
The red dial shutter speed progression is 1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, 75, 100, 200, 500, 1000, B. It's flash synched at 25, with the synch dial set to 0 and at 1/50th, with the synch dial set to a 20 millesecond delay.
The IIIf comes both with and without a self-timer lever.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
If you are never going to use a flash unit with the IIIf, get the black dial and youl'll save yourself at least 100 bucks.
Welcome to the RF forum!
Welcome to the RF forum!
ScottS
Established
Solinar said:
Or to take it one step further, if you aren't going to use flash with the IIIf, you might save even more money going with a IIIa, IIIb, or IIIc.
Scott
zeos 386sx
Well-known
Would you Leica IIIx experts take a look at the pictures of a "Leica 3G Swedish Crown Model" for sale on Ebay.
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30030&item=7524039097&rd=1>
Didn't the IIIg's always have a small contact in the middle of the hotshoe?
Records say there were only 125 of these cameras made for the Swedish army. Given attrition there are probably very few left. I'm surprised this item isn't selling for some huge amount. Without being able to see the rangefinder linkage what's your opinion of this camera?
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30030&item=7524039097&rd=1>
Didn't the IIIg's always have a small contact in the middle of the hotshoe?
Records say there were only 125 of these cameras made for the Swedish army. Given attrition there are probably very few left. I'm surprised this item isn't selling for some huge amount. Without being able to see the rangefinder linkage what's your opinion of this camera?
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Remind me never to paint a IIIg black. This same seller was auctioning a gorgeous Nikon SP. I would much rather have it than a black IIIg.
The IIIg is a nice camera with its improved viewfinder and modern shutter speed progression, but they are overpriced. They sell for more than a M3. The IIIg seems to be a favorite of collectors and this black Swedish model is the most expensive one I've seen.. Personally, I'm happy with my older Barnacks.
The IIIg is a nice camera with its improved viewfinder and modern shutter speed progression, but they are overpriced. They sell for more than a M3. The IIIg seems to be a favorite of collectors and this black Swedish model is the most expensive one I've seen.. Personally, I'm happy with my older Barnacks.
Given that Shintaro and others paint Leica IIIg's I would not know how to tell if this one is a fake or not. It is hard to believe that a camera made for Army use would be in such good condition. Usually they are used until worn out.
zeos 386sx
Well-known
Mr. Sweeney,
I had the same reservation about use as you - I would expect much more wear for a military camera. If legit, I can only assume this one was kept in a camera case or there would have been scuffing of the black paint above the neck strap studs. However, if it was kept in a case then why is there so much brassing around the ASA/DIN ring on the back of the camera?
There is brass showing. Could a chrome IIIg have been brass coated before painting?
The serial number looks legitimate but it is possible that a real number could have been covered over by brass, reengraved then painted.
If I were considering the purchase of this camera I think I would want an expert to take a close-up look at it before I parted with money.
Thanks for your opinions.
I had the same reservation about use as you - I would expect much more wear for a military camera. If legit, I can only assume this one was kept in a camera case or there would have been scuffing of the black paint above the neck strap studs. However, if it was kept in a case then why is there so much brassing around the ASA/DIN ring on the back of the camera?
There is brass showing. Could a chrome IIIg have been brass coated before painting?
The serial number looks legitimate but it is possible that a real number could have been covered over by brass, reengraved then painted.
If I were considering the purchase of this camera I think I would want an expert to take a close-up look at it before I parted with money.
Thanks for your opinions.
dll927
Well-known
IIIg prices stem from the fact that they were the last "screw-mount" models. I remember another teacher at school who once let slip that he had a IIIg - and I told him never to part with it, as it would only increase in value - or at least selling price. He has probably gone to his eternal reward by now, but that IIIg must still be around somewhere.
The above are correct on the black/red issue - it's the numbers on the flash synch dial just below the shutter-speed dial.
One pretty sure way to keep things straight is serial numbers. There are websites (www.cameraquest.com) that have printable complete lists of Leica serials.
The above are correct on the black/red issue - it's the numbers on the flash synch dial just below the shutter-speed dial.
One pretty sure way to keep things straight is serial numbers. There are websites (www.cameraquest.com) that have printable complete lists of Leica serials.
dll927
Well-known
After looking back over this thread, I add:
Leica has long been notorious for issuing "special editions", and they continue to do so. I guess if someone wants to put special value on a particular edition, let them have their way. But I personally have a hard time thinking of a Leica as a display item rather than a picture-taker.
I mentioned serial numbers above, and I suppose it is possible to alter them. That seems almost sacreligious, but somebody with ulterior motives might not hesitate to do it. As for "experts" who can tell a genuine from a fake, that seems to be true also of paintings and art objects, but I think you would have to look at a LOT of Leicas to be in that category.
At least at one time, the Russians wre almost past masters at fake Leicas as well as Zorkis, FEDs, etc. But they weren't exactly honest about recognizing patents, either.
Leica has long been notorious for issuing "special editions", and they continue to do so. I guess if someone wants to put special value on a particular edition, let them have their way. But I personally have a hard time thinking of a Leica as a display item rather than a picture-taker.
I mentioned serial numbers above, and I suppose it is possible to alter them. That seems almost sacreligious, but somebody with ulterior motives might not hesitate to do it. As for "experts" who can tell a genuine from a fake, that seems to be true also of paintings and art objects, but I think you would have to look at a LOT of Leicas to be in that category.
At least at one time, the Russians wre almost past masters at fake Leicas as well as Zorkis, FEDs, etc. But they weren't exactly honest about recognizing patents, either.