Canon LTM How do you hold this damn thing still?

[James Burton]

I am sitting here looking at my Canonet QL17 GIII. It's a cute little thing,
nice lens, works OK, but I've just scanned in the first few films I've put through it. They feature lots of camera shake. At first I thought it was just the hip shots at 1/30th. But now I've edited the scans I've realised that a lot of the 2 handed shots are not that good either. Is this camera at all usable at 1/30th? Is anybody else having trouble holding it still or am I drinking too much coffee? I can certainly use my other (mumble SLR mumble) camera at 1/30th (50mm prime lens). If you are having the same trouble, any idea why? Is it just too small?

BTW I'm a newbie, do we mention other cameras in here at all?

 

[nwcanonman]

James,
Well, I'm 53 and have no problem holding my Q17 steady at 1/30th, but I've had a couple years of practice.
Have you tried using a soft release on the shutter. I've found it can help.
Oh, and yes we can mention other cameras, brands of coffee, favorite beer ............ etc. Welcome to the friendly, laid-back RFF ~ ; - )

 

[Todd.Hanz]

elbows in, feet shoulder width apart

Are you sure the shutter speeds are correct? your 1/30th of a second may be 1/15 or 1/4 sec.

Todd

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Is it camera shake or focusing? Could you post a shot?

 

[joeyjoe]

I seem to be able to get good results consistantly at 1/30th; if I'm lucky I can go for 1/15th and it'll be a bit soft.

 

[rover]

I shoot at 1/30 and 1/15 without a problem when necessary too.

Everyone is different though. How much coffee do you drink?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Try practicing without film until you get a comfortable release technique. Rather than the end of your finger, try laying your finger across the release and using your finger's joint to press the release down. The Canonet has a short throw, and I do this for slow speeds. Also take a deep breath and hold it, then release. Kind of like target shooting with a rifle, if you have ever done that.

 

[Pherdinand]

I have no long-term experience with the Canonet, but it went okay for me. The only visible blur came from the motion of the subject here and there, like, walking/biking folks.

Brian - short throw??? Maybe i misunderstand what you mean, but I have to push mine deep in to make it click.

 

[James Burton]

elbows in, feet shoulder width apart

Are you sure the shutter speeds are correct? your 1/30th of a second may be 1/15 or 1/4 sec.

Todd

Good point, the shutter timing could be off. I havn't run a proper shutter/aperture test yet. But the exposures I have done are spot-on. Here are some examples. A shot of a sculpture and a 100% crop (canonet @ 1/30th, 2 hands), also a 100% crop from another camera, 50mm prime @ 1/45th I think. I regularly shoot the SLR/50mm @ 1/45th from the hip with a reasonable success rate. At the moment it looks like I can't get below 1/60th using both hands from the canonet. I think that as others have suggested practice is required. I guess I expected that SLR practice would amount to the same thing. Thanks for all your help.

 

[oftheherd]

Maybe its my crappy monitor here, but that looks more like a focusing problem to me, not hand shake. What film and development were you using?

 

[dmr]

They feature lots of camera shake. At first I thought it was just the hip shots at 1/30th. But now I've edited the scans I've realised that a lot of the 2 handed shots are not that good either.

I just got a QL17 GIII working and I noticed the same thing on my first test roll. Years ago when I had a Mamiya RF I swore I could consistently hold it steady for 1/15 very reliably. Most of my first available light shots at 1/15 and even some at 1/30 showed significant shake.

Is this camera at all usable at 1/30th?

Yes, most definitely. On my next couple rolls I paid attention to my technique and it worked much better. Most of those I just posted to the gallery (of the LV Strip) were 1/30. This one here was:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/10132/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

You can see the movement of the passers-by in the foreground but the building is clear.

I can certainly use my other (mumble SLR mumble) camera at 1/30th (50mm prime lens). If you are having the same trouble, any idea why?

I can very consistently hold the Pentax K1000 at 1/30 and sometimes at 1/15.

I'm thinking that maybe the reason my test roll was so bad is that I was overconfident at the low speeds and I was not paying attention to technique. I'm also still somewhat unfamiliar with the real "feel" of the camera.

Maybe I'm also overestimating the actual gain I'll get with the rangefinder as far as being able to use the slower speeds. I'm still kinda climbing the re-learning curve here with the rangefinder.

 

[James Burton]

I have no long-term experience with the Canonet, but it went okay for me. The only visible blur came from the motion of the subject here and there, like, walking/biking folks.

Brian - short throw??? Maybe i misunderstand what you mean, but I have to push mine deep in to make it click.

Yes, with my camera in A mode the aperture blades close down at 1/2 throw which is achievable with my finger laid across. But the shutter won't fire unless I dig my finger right in. I'll keep my eyes open for a sot release. I drink way too much coffee. But I can shoot fine with the SLR. Weird.

My current theory is that although the canonet weighs about the same as the SLR + lens, it is much smaller. Also I havn't found a grip which puts a part of my hand opposite the shutter button to absorb the impact. With the SLR (EOS 30 if it matters) the shutter impact goes into the palm of the same hand no matter how I hold it.

 

[Rob]

I find it easier to hold the larger full size and weight RFs still at lower shutter speeds...
But with practice the small ones you can get used to it. Maybe try a faster film to avoid those really slow speeds. Maybe your slow speeds on your camera are running too slow?

 

[Doug]

James, in examining the 100% crop of the sculpture, it seems to me the horizontal lines are sharper than the vertical lines. I wonder if you see the same. This tells me that there was horizontal movement during the exposure.

My current theory is that although the canonet weighs about the same as the SLR + lens, it is much smaller. Also I havn't found a grip which puts a part of my hand opposite the shutter button to absorb the impact. With the SLR (EOS 30 if it matters) the shutter impact goes into the palm of the same hand no matter how I hold it.

You make a very good point about opposing forces being beneficial. That's one of the target rifle techniques that translate well to the camera; squeeze it off rather than press...

I need to work on that too, again; even if we have good habits, it's not hard to fall into bad habits through lack of attention.

 

[James Burton]

Maybe its my crappy monitor here, but that looks more like a focusing problem to me, not hand shake. What film and development were you using?

This is at least partially correct. I finally got around to doing an exposure test and a focus test. The exposure test was fine (full manual, get exposure from light meter, expose 1 frame at each setting from f1.7/500th -> f16/4tr). All the frames pretty much matched on the negative. In the focus test, I started at 3ft, increaed by 1ft for each frame. Only 1 frame was in sharp focus. Looks like the rangefinder is somewhat off. I need to redo my test to find out exactly what is happening.

OK, so I've just taken the top off (I've never looked inside a camera before) and replaced it. I cleaned the viewfinder & patch glass, blew out the mirror. Thanks awfully to the RFF crew for the simple explanations as to how to do it. Seems to still work.

Is there a way to adjust the focus? I've searched but not found anybody saying they have done it. I assume this is non-trivial.

Thanks.

 

[giellaleafapmu]

Is there a way to adjust the focus? I've searched but not found anybody saying they have done it. I assume this is non-trivial.

Thanks.

I remember reading a home-page of a chap who put a TTL light meter into a Leica IIIf (!!!).
In the same page he has instructions on how to realine rangefindewrs. He shows a Bessa
R2 but I guess that most of the principles are the same on any camera.

The URL is:

http://huws.org.uk/

Giella lea Fapmu

PS
This site does not imply that realinining a rangefinder is trivial, the chap who wrote it seems
to have more-than-average skills for DIY!!!

 

[kiev4a]

I've never had much luck with small, light cameras--tend to get a lot of photos with shake. My Canon digital A80 drives me nuts because along with being small and light you have the damn delay between pushing the button and the thing actually going off.

In addition, I think the shape of the body can be a factor. I can handhold a Zorki or FED 1 (Leica II) at relatively slow speeds but can't do as well with the small, boxy Canons and Olympus.

 

[doubs43]

I've just scanned a page from a 50 year old book that illustrates ways to steady your camera. I've given credit to the author so hopefully I'm not violating copyright. While the book is on using the Exakta camera, the methods are valid for any small camera.

Go to the Gallery section and look for a file named "Steady Your Camera". I think it will give you some ideas.

Walker

 

[Kin Lau]

Just a few thoughts.

My GIII is quite compact, and with the viewfinder on the left side instead of dead center as with an SLR, I have to make some adjustments on the grip.

I'm naturally left-eyed, so most of my face behind the camera, and it part of my "platform" with my two arms basically pushing the camera back into my cheek for stability.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Sorry, you probably are violating copyright. It is almost certainly within the time limit for the author's death (unless he is still alive) and I don't think this sort of thing would come under 'fair use'.

I doubt anyone will sue but you cannot be sure. As an author I wouldn't sue -- it's good publicity for something published 50 years ago and promotes the reputation -- but equally I wouldn't be quite as casual as you have been about copyright.

Cheers,

Roger W. Hicks LL.B.