mooge
Well-known
it's kind of an investment, y'know...
what should I look for that says I should get (because few NEED one) a Leica M?
I could use one for sure- I dig low light, unobtrusiveness is a plus, small size and durability/build quality are important to me, but I'm not sure that it justifies such a large expense...
and I may get the chance to try one (M4-P! made in Canada!) for a day or so... what lens should I try with it, tri-elmar (chrome, so I must forfeit the next 20 years of salary if I break/lose it) or summicron 35?
saving has been commenced (though I might splurge on a guitar soon...)
and what does a M4-2 or M4-P go for, in user condition? or what makes a M2 better?
cheers,
Dragunov of the North
what should I look for that says I should get (because few NEED one) a Leica M?
I could use one for sure- I dig low light, unobtrusiveness is a plus, small size and durability/build quality are important to me, but I'm not sure that it justifies such a large expense...
and I may get the chance to try one (M4-P! made in Canada!) for a day or so... what lens should I try with it, tri-elmar (chrome, so I must forfeit the next 20 years of salary if I break/lose it) or summicron 35?
saving has been commenced (though I might splurge on a guitar soon...)
and what does a M4-2 or M4-P go for, in user condition? or what makes a M2 better?
cheers,
Dragunov of the North
amateriat
We're all light!
You get a Leica because you want one. That was my only impetus to get a pair of Hexar RFs and build a little system around them. It's not "I need it", I should have it", or "I deserve it." If you think it works best for you, there you go.
In ascending order of price, it's M4-2, M4-P, M6 Classic, M6 TTL, and so on. Subject to change based on an individual camera's condition. (Hint: go for a user M, not some never-touched-by-grubby-photographers'-hands number.)
Also consider: Zeiss-Ikon, or Bessa R2/3/4. (Yes, Hexar too, but you knew that.)
- Barrett
In ascending order of price, it's M4-2, M4-P, M6 Classic, M6 TTL, and so on. Subject to change based on an individual camera's condition. (Hint: go for a user M, not some never-touched-by-grubby-photographers'-hands number.)
Also consider: Zeiss-Ikon, or Bessa R2/3/4. (Yes, Hexar too, but you knew that.)
- Barrett
Al Kaplan
Veteran
The M2 is better built, has nice smooth hand fitted brass gears instead of machined stainless steel, and lacks 28mm and 135mm frames, but they can be added. It also has a rewind knob instead of a crank and it has a take-up spool instead of the rapid load system and it hasa manual reset frame counter. The quality will spoil you! Then in a hopeless attempt to find a guitar imbued with the same magic you'll be checking out ancient vintage Martins while you search for Dobro so you can enjoy the unique sound that'll really WOW! your friends. Or maybe you'll get lucky and find "Grampa's funny looking guitar and his junky ol' film camera" at the same yard sale and have the fun of bargaining them down from the twenty dollar asking price for the pair of 'em.
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amateriat
We're all light!
Be careful of Al...he knows all the Good Stuff.
- Barrett
- Barrett
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Not ALL the good stuff. I ain't no good at choosing women. Oh, I chose a good one for breeding purposes, producing an attorney and a rabbi, but I can't seem to keep one for more than ten or twelve years. I have better luck with Leicas.
OOH! I just noticed that this is post #1,001!
OOH! I just noticed that this is post #1,001!
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__hh
Well-known
When the opportunity came up, the only reasons I needed were:
a. I could afford it at the time;
b. I've read about it, and it sounded like a good camera to use; and
c. I had the desire to give the "Leica experience" a try.
a. I could afford it at the time;
b. I've read about it, and it sounded like a good camera to use; and
c. I had the desire to give the "Leica experience" a try.
marke
Well-known
Bingley
Veteran
A Leica M2 in good working condition can be had for less than the price of a new R2* or R4* and gives you 35mm framelines you can easily see if you wear glasses. That, and the quiet shutter, were the key issues for me. It wasn't a brand thing; the M2 was simply better value for the money for my needs (YMMV).
Bingley
Veteran
I just noticed that I have over 270 more posts than Al, but he is a much, much better photographer and knows what he's talking about gear-wise. Maybe I should shut-up and shoot more... 
Fred Burton
Well-known
Dragunov, repeat after me..."A camera is not an investment, a camera is not an investment, a camera is not an investment,..."
Now, buy what you want and use it up taking photos.
Now, buy what you want and use it up taking photos.
waileong
Well-known
You get one when you're ready for pure thinking photography, ie no auto-this and auto-that. And when you feel you're ready to move away from SLR photography, to shoot by feel and to use zone focusing rather than worrying if every shot is focused.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
When you've voted 'no' to putting a link to evil SLRs in the left main page forum menu.
When you've decided that the Hexar RF and Zeiss Ikon and Bessas are definitely inferior cameras.
When you've read sufficient praise of the M2 and M3 here that you actually believe they are the best two cameras ever made by Leica.
Once you've completed these transitions ... you're ready!
When you've decided that the Hexar RF and Zeiss Ikon and Bessas are definitely inferior cameras.
When you've read sufficient praise of the M2 and M3 here that you actually believe they are the best two cameras ever made by Leica.
Once you've completed these transitions ... you're ready!
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Bingley, I should shoot more, develop the couple dozen already shot rolls, and make contact sheets from probably 40 other rolls. Then I have about 200 old images picked out that need to be printed.
As for "better photographer"? Keep in mind that some of the photos I post are not new. They're culled from a file that starts way back in 1961. That was the original reason for starting thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com, getting me to go back through my files, make up some prints, and write about what was going on when the photos were shot. Then I got off on tangents about local politics with color pictures, the self-portrait project, and combined with both (thanks to James Mitchell for the idea) I introduced the toy monkey, Monkette, who brags about running the mayor's succesful re-election campaign. The mayor insisted that she come to the victory party! Since turning 66 earlier this month I've slacked off on carrying Monkette to Chamber of Commerce and city board and council meetings. As my ex puts it "You're a respected member of the community and shouldn't be seen carrying around a toy monkey in public and dressing like a bum, and GET A HAIRCUT!
As for "better photographer"? Keep in mind that some of the photos I post are not new. They're culled from a file that starts way back in 1961. That was the original reason for starting thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com, getting me to go back through my files, make up some prints, and write about what was going on when the photos were shot. Then I got off on tangents about local politics with color pictures, the self-portrait project, and combined with both (thanks to James Mitchell for the idea) I introduced the toy monkey, Monkette, who brags about running the mayor's succesful re-election campaign. The mayor insisted that she come to the victory party! Since turning 66 earlier this month I've slacked off on carrying Monkette to Chamber of Commerce and city board and council meetings. As my ex puts it "You're a respected member of the community and shouldn't be seen carrying around a toy monkey in public and dressing like a bum, and GET A HAIRCUT!
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aizan
Veteran
when you have $1000-3000 to buy one with.
David Murphy
Veteran
Well, they sort of sell themselves. Try handling a good one. Most, but not all, serious camera users sense their magic quickly - the hype around them is not BS, it's based in reality.
They are all great, but in my opinion the early M3 (especially the double-stroke) and the Welzlar (German-made) M4's are standouts in the history of photography - yes I'd go that far in describing them!
They are all great, but in my opinion the early M3 (especially the double-stroke) and the Welzlar (German-made) M4's are standouts in the history of photography - yes I'd go that far in describing them!
David Murphy
Veteran
Yes, well why it helps to have a $1000 to buy one, you can find bargain usable M's at times for as little as $400 if you can deal with some cosmetic defects like missing pieces of leatherette. You can get a decent M2, M3, or M4-P for $650-$700 if you are patient - many have sold here on RFF in that range of the last few years.
BobPS
Established
I completely agree with Fred, a camera is not an investment.
I just recently acquire my M6, my first rangefinder and in my case I get it because I want it. The money question came later I wanted a Leica, so I started to save some money to buy one.
The reasons you mentioned like unobtrusiveness, durability etc are just well, reasons. I mean my FM2n is small, unobtrusive and durable ... it's 14 years old and my minolta xgm is 27 years old and still works well, and they're about the same size as a my M6. My canon 30D is bigger though.
So you don't need reasons to justify the purchase
Bob
I just recently acquire my M6, my first rangefinder and in my case I get it because I want it. The money question came later
I wanted a Leica, so I started to save some money to buy one. The reasons you mentioned like unobtrusiveness, durability etc are just well, reasons. I mean my FM2n is small, unobtrusive and durable ... it's 14 years old and my minolta xgm is 27 years old and still works well, and they're about the same size as a my M6. My canon 30D is bigger though.
So you don't need reasons to justify the purchase
Bob
stefan_dinu
Established
For me was simple. The GAS was so powerful that I did not make any photographs and just thinking to buy a Leica M. So, to get rid of that thought I bought an MP. And start shooting.
And start shooting.
edodo
Well-known
When the style of photography, or the command demands certain qualities in a photo that only a leica would bring (capturing human expression, unobstrusive reportage, decisive moment) then you know you should have it. But they are many others cameras capable of that! Only the Leica M system has multiple lens capability, good resistance and beautiful mechanical conception!
edit: PS : I always grin when I hear about the "reflex" gender because, I still believe that this "name" is a big deception! The reflex is not as fast as a reflex, in fact that may be the slowest possible camera in the 35mm world! Good to shoot inhuman landscape or non moving object... Human means leica to me...
edit: PS : I always grin when I hear about the "reflex" gender because, I still believe that this "name" is a big deception! The reflex is not as fast as a reflex, in fact that may be the slowest possible camera in the 35mm world! Good to shoot inhuman landscape or non moving object... Human means leica to me...
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Maxapple88
Established
You need a Leica M when you're considering to buy a Nikon but deep down you know that you'll still eventually want a Leica and the Nikon just won't cut it.