how does one roll from a bulk 100" ir film?

[raytoei@gmail.com]

Hi,

Totally newbie in ir.
But came across a 100 feet bulk roll of rollei ir400.

I read that ir film has to be loaded into the camera in complete darkness. Does this apply to rolling into 35mm canisters from a bulk loader too?

Any idea what would happen if I roll the film in the bulk loader in daylight?

Thanks!

Raytoei

 

[Mcary]

A bit confused by your question as I thought all bulk film had to be load into the bulk loader in complete darkness and that once the film was in the loader the only part that was exposed to light would be the lead. So once you've attached the lead to the spool and close closed the cassette and the door to the loader the film would be in complete darkness as you loaded in into the cassette. Then once you've finished loading that cassette you close the door between the two section of the loader there by preventing the roll of bulk film from being exposed to light when you remove the cassette from the other section of the loader.

 

[Mackinaw]

You’ll have to load the bulk roll in total darkness but, once that is done, you can load the individual film cassettes in subdued light. See this for more info:

http://www.maco-photo.de/files/images/ROLLEI INFRARED englisch.pdf

Jim B.

 

[bmattock]

Hi,

Totally newbie in ir.
But came across a 100 feet bulk roll of rollei ir400.

I read that ir film has to be loaded into the camera in complete darkness. Does this apply to rolling into 35mm canisters from a bulk loader too?

Any idea what would happen if I roll the film in the bulk loader in daylight?

Thanks!

Raytoei

The comments made before mind are correct. I think you might have read or heard of warnings to load infra-red ROLL FILM in complete darkness (as opposed to 'subdued light' for normal film). Roll film does not have a cartridge to protect the film from the light as 35mm cartridges do.

IR film is more light sensitive, but otherwise, you can load it as you would load any bulk 35mm film.

 

[ashfaque]

Hi Raytoei,

For 35mm: +1 to what Jim referred to.
Rollei IR 400 can be loaded with a typical bulk-loader. But polyester (PE) based films, IR 400 Retro 80s, 400S, RPX 25 and possibly a few more Rollei films needs to be loaded into the camera in subdued light. Otherwise, light-leaking appears in the first few frames. Same thing applies when you're reloading your film cassettes from a bulk loader.

Re Rollei IR 400, Have a look at Martin Zimelka's review. http://www.martinzimelka.com/pages/Rollei_Infrared_400.html

He mentions one major concern though. The IR sensitivity of this film drops pretty quickly after it passes its expiry date. Assuming he did everything right, this is bad for anyone buying expired film. Having said that I haven't heard/read similar thing from others. I personally haven't used the film yet.

But if you want something similar, i.e., near IR effect, then check out his review on Retro 80s and 400S. Both, especially 80S, is pretty good.

For 120 films: Some Rollei 120 films (Retro 80S, 400S, IR 400, RPX 25, etc) are PET based. Retro 80S and 400S used to come in 120 black plastic canister. Not any more - now have to buy them separately. I think I read somewhere last year that light-leak could occur near the edges of these 120 films as well even though they are buried under the backing paper - especially if you're working in bright light/direct sun-light.

Adox's 120 film canisters are cheaper than Maco ones. So I bought ten of those (whilst buying some other stuffs from Fotoimpex) mainly to avoid dust and humidity in Dhaka. If you can't find them cheap, just get a thick plastic bag - for e.g. http://www.freestylephoto.biz/41260-Black-Bag-for-Mailer-20x24. Even those thick bin-liner will probably do.

Bests,
Ashfaque

 

[sevo]

Retro 80S and 400S used to come in 120 black plastic canister. Not any more - now have to buy them separately. I think I read somewhere last year that light-leak could occur near the edges of these 120 films as well even though they are buried under the backing paper

Plastic containers are not IR proof, back in the days when real IR film existed it was the last film sold in metal containers or in a aluminium coated paper wrap. For the same reasons I'd be cautious regarding backing paper - Kodak may have had reasons (besides the aerial photo trade preferring 70mm bulk) not to offer HIE in 120.

But what current sellers offer as "IR" film is in reality only "red-enhanced" traffic film. With just a very narrow near-IR band which behaves quite the same as visible red, while Kodak HIE had a IR bandwidth bigger than the entire visual spectrum. In my experience there is no need to treat the current films different from regular polyester based panchromatic film - but beware if you ever lay hands on old HIE...

 

[tho60]

I do not have any bulk loader. I measure about 165 cm-s of film in the following manner: I step on the end, then I raise the roll up to my eyebrows- while the film rolls down. This distance is about the necessary one. Having trimmed the measured film with scissors, I load it into used ORWO NP cassettes.
Of course, this is done in complete darkness.

 

[ashfaque]

Plastic containers are not IR proof, back in the days when real IR film existed it was the last film sold in metal containers or in a aluminium coated paper wrap. For the same reasons I'd be cautious regarding backing paper - Kodak may have had reasons (besides the aerial photo trade preferring 70mm bulk) not to offer HIE in 120.

But what current sellers offer as "IR" film is in reality only "red-enhanced" traffic film. With just a very narrow near-IR band which behaves quite the same as visible red, while Kodak HIE had a IR bandwidth bigger than the entire visual spectrum. In my experience there is no need to treat the current films different from regular polyester based panchromatic film - but beware if you ever lay hands on old HIE...

Just to clarify: I wasn't talking about plastic canisters in relation IR film's IR sensitivity - rather about light-leaking in polyester based films. From what I read, those true IR films (from Efke, and Kodak) are way too expensive and fussy.

 

[gdi]

I just received a bulk roll of Rollei IR 400 as well. I am loading from a Watson in subdued light into metal cassettes. I will load the camera in indirect light and shoot a test roll today, hopefully I can report back that all is well with this approach.

Also, just correct a few things - I used to shoot a fair amount of HIE and while it had to be handled in complete darkness, it was very easy to shoot handheld with a Red filter. And, yes, it did come in plastic canisters which could be exposed to light - IR light could not penetrate the plastic canister. Any HIE is by now 6-7 years old and I would expect that the IR sensitivity may have been severely reduced, so I would be cautious about buying any now, even if has been frozen - especially at the usual asking prices (just my opinion, I haven't shot HIE that old).

Regarding 120 vs 35mm. I never shot HIE in 120 (it was available cut down from larger Aerial rolls), but I shot Efke and the process was to load 35mm in total darkness, but 120 could be loaded in dim light. The backing paper actually protects the film quite well, while the 35mm design allowed for light to "pipe" inside the can and expose the film. I never had any problems with 120 other than just along the edges if the film and never into the image.

 

[x-ray]

Kodak high speed IR has to be loaded into the camera in total darkness and unloaded in total darkness. The film piped IR through the base and the cassettes leaked IR. In short the cassette could never be exposed to light. All loading of the camera and unloading had to be done in total darkness.

 

[gdi]

Kodak high speed IR has to be loaded into the camera in total darkness and unloaded in total darkness. The film piped IR through the base and the cassettes leaked IR. In short the cassette could never be exposed to light. All loading of the camera and unloading had to be done in total darkness.

Thanks for that clarification!

 

[charjohncarter]

I don't know if someone has said this but a plastic bulk loader might give you a problem. I wouldn't chance a plastic bulk loader with Kodak HIE, and with this film you might be on safer ground. Still, after loading the film in the loader I would not expose it to IR light. You could test with a small strip, but I'd hate to see you lose a 100' bulk roll.

This also goes for the camera used (no plastic body cameras). Use an all metal camera even the ID window on the back of some 35mm cameras can let IR light in so mask off with foil and tape.

 

[gdi]

I don't know if someone has said this but a plastic bulk loader might give you a problem. I wouldn't chance a plastic bulk loader with Kodak HIE, and with this film you might be on safer ground. Still, after loading the film in the loader I would not expose it to IR light. You could test with a small strip, but I'd hate to see you lose a 100' bulk roll.

This also goes for the camera used (no plastic body cameras). Use an all metal camera even the ID window on the back of some 35mm cameras can let IR light in so mask off with foil and tape.

I am going to process a test roll shortly, but I think a plastic loader should be ok. If not - then I will have taken one for the team to confirm it doesn't work and will have wasted 100 feet of the film! Obviously, I never bulk loaded HIE, but it was a different animal and extremely sensitive compared to Rollei.

I did however shoot HIE in several plastic bodied cameras - or at least the outer shells were plastic. I usually used a cheap Bessa R or an EOS 630 - and I did use foil and gaffer tape over the film id window. I never had any leaks. I shot my test roll with an MP, and found how hard it can be to load that thing in near darkness!

Related to bulk loading - I just received a box of metal reusable cassettes and what a pain they are! It is very hard to snap the ring back on when ready to roll. I have only used plastic ones inthe past with no problems. Does anyone have any "tricks" to get these things assembled easily?

 

[znapper]

A bulk-loader is supposed to be light-tight.

The same rules apply to all films when you bulk-load a new reel. (IE, they are loaded inside the tank, so you can do that part in daylight).

For finishing the roll (cutting the leader) and loading the camera, it may be a smart thing to do that in subdued light.

All films are sensitive to light, IR or otherwise.

 

[x-ray]

I shot a lot of Kodak IR in the day. Even shot the old slow speed Kodak IR in the 60's before the high speed came out. I shot 35mm, 70mm aero IR, 9" aero IR and sheets.

With Kodak high speed you have to use specifically designed sheet film holders that don't transmit IR. I think the safe ones have 4 raised dots on the upper edge of the darkslide and the unsafe have 3 or none.

I worked with an aerial research firm in the early 70's and shot thousands of feet of 70mm and 9" aero IR. Everything including the 9x9 inch backs had to be loaded in total darkness. What fun:-(. We loaded 490 ft rolls of 9 inch wide film in them. The 70mm was loaded in 70mm Hasselblad magazines but again in total darkness. Rather than reloading a back in flight we had 20 70mm backs and just swapped them out.

I shot a few rolls of Rollei and Maco a few years ago and don't think I had to load the camera in darkness. Subdued light was fine. I would however do a few tests.

Good luck!

 

[J enea]

I bulk roll all the rollei extended red film, retro 80s, 400s and superpan using lloyd's bulk rollers, which are plastic. just use common sense. when loading the cartridges from the bulk loader, don't do it in a super bright room and shield the loader from direct light with your body. I have use 30+ bulk rolls of these films and never had any issues except ones that were my fault. also load the film into your camera in the shade and shielded from direct light. that will cause more problems of light piping than rolling your own from loaders.

 

[gdi]

My test shows no problem at all with loading the Rollei in a Watson loader - I did it in fairly dim light, but no where near darkness.

Now I need to develop a second more serious roll taken today...

 

[gdi]

Well, I developed a second roll and I find I need some work on my technique. I think I may have underexposed these - the foliage is really not very white, or maybe the conditions were not that great. I think it was over cast and bright which resulted in a lot of IR in the atmosphere, but blocked a lot from making it to the ground (if that makes sense).

Also I have a lot of grain, for this film, so my development may be a problem. Here they are - R72 filter, about About ISO 25 or 12, developed in HC110 B for 8:45...

Advice is welcome!

Mill by gdi2003, on Flickr

Mill Vista by gdi2003, on Flickr

 

[charjohncarter]

Advice, well it took me a long time to get Kodak HIE down, but then they immediately stopped production. So next I went to Efke IR 820 with a R72 filter. I think with this film I ended up with EI of 3-6. When that film was gone I dropped my interest and only use SFX now. One thing you have to pick your shots with IR. If you want drama then get good at sunny days. I didn't like drama so I only shot it in the winter but on sunny days.

Here are a few of Efke IR 9820-R72 filter:

Mission San Miguel by John Carter, on Flickr
Efke IR820 HC-110h by John Carter, on Flickr