sepiareverb
genius and moron
Better that he found it a month later than a minute later. Camera may have worked but the farmer wouldn't have.
How durable is the Leica?
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Better that he found it a month later than a minute later. Camera may have worked but the farmer wouldn't have.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Tim Page stopped a round with an F in Vietnam too. The camera is a bit of a mess.
I've never heard of M's actually stopping a round, though I suppose it's possible.
In less dramatic circumstances, M's are certainly pretty damn' tough, though professionally they tend to be used hard for a few years (maybe as much as 20-25) then replaced by a newer Leica. The older Leica may them serve as a backup, or move into the used market -- though anyone who wants a second-hand Leica to use hard will normally do better with a camera that has received constant but fairly gentle amateur use.
Cheers,
R.
I've never heard of M's actually stopping a round, though I suppose it's possible.
In less dramatic circumstances, M's are certainly pretty damn' tough, though professionally they tend to be used hard for a few years (maybe as much as 20-25) then replaced by a newer Leica. The older Leica may them serve as a backup, or move into the used market -- though anyone who wants a second-hand Leica to use hard will normally do better with a camera that has received constant but fairly gentle amateur use.
Cheers,
R.
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efkbl
Established
Well, it seems that even a plastic Rebel XT can survive a 1000m drop:
http://gizmodo.com/5427517/canon-dslr-suffers-3000+foot-fall-camera-and-lens-still-work
I guess it landed in soft ground.
TWoK
Well-known
So far my M6 has been the worst camera I have ever touched. It is so unreliable after $1,300 and several months I've only been able to shoot a few rolls of film through it. I don't think I'll ever buy another Leica in my life.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Roger,
The story, as I remember, was a screw mount Leica during World War Two. The camera was owned by a German Officer if I remember correct. I believe I read this from Leica's web page that chronicaled the company's history.
Calzone
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
I went to Leica's web page, but it is now differant.
After having worked at an American aerospace company that had a German heritage, and because this Leica was possibly and/or specifically a military camera, I wonder if back then if Leica designed it to have a second function as body armour.
Calzone
Graham Line
Well-known
My M4-P has been in steady, almost daily use since it was new in the mid-80s, and has had two CLA sessions in that time. The pro I got it from used it more heavily than I. There are some dings and scrapes, but no major failures.
ItsReallyDarren
That's really me
There is only one way to find out. One of us needs to shoot our M.
We might need to shoot a couple just to make sure we have a good amount of working data.
Volunteers?
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
A round from a Saturday Night Special, maybe. All these "stopped by a camera" bullets will have been at the very long end of their range. Don't mix up fiction and reality - on TV people all the cop heroes hide behind cars. In real life, a car (or even the average house wall) is no protection against a rifle bullet at useful range - and neither are cameras.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
This is a very valid point. You no doubt recall T.E. Lawrence's image of riding a motorcycle fast: something about 'beetles, like spent bullets'.
On the other hand, car bodywork or even car windows will dissipate the vast majority of pistol bullets at anything but point-blank range, and it is next to impossible to shoot out vehicle tyres with most pistols. Source: a police department that didn't want to buy H-D motorcycles, and was taking the pee out of their claim that their tires [sic] were bulletproof. I think too that more than two or at least three of layers of bodywork, especially with the engine block in the way, would dissipate the energy of any normal rifle bullet.
And of course there's a vast difference between a Lee Enfield and a Kalashnikov. For that matter, I'd back the walls of my house (fairly average in my village) against anything up to and including a single round of .5 HMG and possibly even 20mm. But then, the walls of my house are stone and rather over two feet thick. Where I lived in California, .22 would probably have gone through.
Cheers,
R.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Indeed. For a war reporter, it's mostly the latter (or worse), though. I've been in Sarajevo immediately post war, and entire parts of the city were literally perforated. It was one of the eeriest sights I've ever seen - there was a row of high-rise buildings opposite us where each evening the sun was glowing through myriads of bullet-size holes in the brick walls, as if they were made from some strange kind of fabric...
BillBingham2
Registered User
Art,
Thanks for your service and Thank God you made it out. I have read a story about a female PJ who caught a round with Nikon RF. Not sure of the model but they are all in the same family as the F.
TWoK,
Sorry to hear about your experience with the M6. I got mine new when it was first released and never had problem that working the shutter did not make better. It sounds like you might have found a service place that I would never go back to, but after sinking $1300 into her you are between a rock and a hard place. I've always tried to send my cameras to the best as when ever I haven't I had to spend as much or more money that I would have.
The M6 is a great camera if I didn't have such a love and history with Nikon SLRs it might be my single RF. Every run from every manufacturer has a dude or two, but there are folks out there like DAG, Solver, Sherry and alike how work MAGIC with cameras.
sevo,
SKS, M-16 or AK not a lot of folks on either side keeping none standard round for a saturday-night-special. Oh, by the way, 22LRs kill too. There was a guard who died last spring in D.C. at the Holocaust Museum. A lot also depends upon the quality of the ammunition.
B2 (;->
Thanks for your service and Thank God you made it out. I have read a story about a female PJ who caught a round with Nikon RF. Not sure of the model but they are all in the same family as the F.
TWoK,
Sorry to hear about your experience with the M6. I got mine new when it was first released and never had problem that working the shutter did not make better. It sounds like you might have found a service place that I would never go back to, but after sinking $1300 into her you are between a rock and a hard place. I've always tried to send my cameras to the best as when ever I haven't I had to spend as much or more money that I would have.
The M6 is a great camera if I didn't have such a love and history with Nikon SLRs it might be my single RF. Every run from every manufacturer has a dude or two, but there are folks out there like DAG, Solver, Sherry and alike how work MAGIC with cameras.
sevo,
SKS, M-16 or AK not a lot of folks on either side keeping none standard round for a saturday-night-special. Oh, by the way, 22LRs kill too. There was a guard who died last spring in D.C. at the Holocaust Museum. A lot also depends upon the quality of the ammunition.
B2 (;->
emraphoto
Veteran
i have seen ak-47's do some serious, serious damage that no camera i know of would stop.
BillBingham2
Registered User
About three feet of water will make the average 50 caliber round useless. Armor penetrating rounds and other special ones do exhibit some very special power.
B2 (;->
Roger Hicks
Veteran
To return briefly to the durability of Leicas -- not that the discussion of firearms was uninteresting -- of course it only needs one person on the internet, with a second-hand camera of dubious antecedents, to wipe out the evidence of 100 experienced users, some of whom may have owned their cameras from new.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The shutters on a M (and probably on a Barnack too) can easily take 250 000 actuations. It is a bit of a hit/miss if they go longer. I know of M's (usually M4-2 or M4 P's) that has had 3-400 000 shots fired without any problems. They used to be used on cruise liners for daily "grip and grins" - 40-50 rolls/day for years.
Cameras like the Md/M1 used on copy stands could do 1 000 000+ exposures without service - but usually at 1 sec or B only.
I suspect that the biggest problem is intermediate use, camera sits for weeks and month without being used and then some films are shot. It is akin to the Mercedes Diesel Myth - they are stated to be able to go 1000 000 km between teardowns. What happens is that these are usually Taxi cabs and are rarely turned off. No wear and tear from cold starts etc.
In most cases, the camera will outlast the photographer - particularly if it is serviced on a regular basis (every 10 years or 250 000 shots, whichever comes first)
I do know that one of my M4P's has had the equivalent of 350 000 shots taken as it was used as a test-bench in my workshop. I had the drive train replaced after 15 years and it is till going strong.
Cameras like the Md/M1 used on copy stands could do 1 000 000+ exposures without service - but usually at 1 sec or B only.
I suspect that the biggest problem is intermediate use, camera sits for weeks and month without being used and then some films are shot. It is akin to the Mercedes Diesel Myth - they are stated to be able to go 1000 000 km between teardowns. What happens is that these are usually Taxi cabs and are rarely turned off. No wear and tear from cold starts etc.
In most cases, the camera will outlast the photographer - particularly if it is serviced on a regular basis (every 10 years or 250 000 shots, whichever comes first)
I do know that one of my M4P's has had the equivalent of 350 000 shots taken as it was used as a test-bench in my workshop. I had the drive train replaced after 15 years and it is till going strong.
Livesteamer
Well-known
Pardon me for drifting a bit off topic but Tom raises a point that has troubled me. I'm willing to invest goodly amounts of money in mechanical M's as I expect them to outlast me and be sold to recover some of the investment. My worry is, how will the digital M's last and will they suffer substantial depreciation? Joe
Sparrow
Veteran
Now your typical F3 would take the round, return, and provide cover for the medivac, and you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you 🙄
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wgerrard
Veteran
Joe, I've got zero empirical data to go on here, but the mechanical parts of a digital Leica ought to last as long as any other Leica if both cameras are built to the same standard.
It is a commonly held belief that if electronic parts are going to fail, they will probably fail early in the lifetime, due to defects. Electronics parts, though, can be damaged by heat, moisture, dust, violent motion (dropping a camera), etc.
In practice, I think it is safe to say that most electronic parts are made obsolete before they fail.
Most digital products suffer depreciation when "bigger, faster, better" stuff hits the market at the same price point. Leica's reputation should offer some protection. But, Leica has no role or influence in the development and marketing of sensors. If "full-frame" sensors, that work in RF's, hit the market at a low price point, that will provide competition that affects the price of used digital Leicas.